Thank You for Listening! This has been an episode from The FowardED Network—Where we are Advancing Voices and Shaping Education. We are dedicated to supporting everyone invested in K-12 success: teachers, leaders, parents, and community advocates.
Want to keep the conversation going?
- Subscribe: Never miss an insight. Hit the subscribe or follow button on your podcast app to automatically receive our next episode.
- Share the Knowledge: If this episode provided value, please take a moment to rate and review us! Your five-star reviews help new teachers, parents, and leaders find our network.
- Explore the Network: This show is just one part of the ForwardEd Network family. Head over to our network page to explore our full roster of interconnected podcasts, including CTRL Shift Lead, Vice Principal UnOfficed, From Carpool to College, and Your Morning Boost.
- Connect with Us: Have a question or an idea for a future episode? Reach out to us at pillars.forwarded@gmail.com or find us on social media using the tag #theForwardEDnetwork.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:05 Ready to revolutionize education? At AWB Education, we combine insightful resources
00:00:05 --> 00:00:08 with personalized coaching right here from Iowa.
00:00:08 --> 00:00:12 Transform your school with our expert program designing edge instructional practices
00:00:12 --> 00:00:14 and efficient automation.
00:00:15 --> 00:00:18 Elevate your learning experience now. Partner with AWB Education today.
00:00:19 --> 00:00:21 Visit aweducation.org for more info.
00:00:22 --> 00:00:27 Your path to success awaits. Welcome to your booster shot from the AWB Education Network.
00:00:28 --> 00:00:32 This podcast series is our opportunity to dive even deeper into the topics and
00:00:32 --> 00:00:35 skills that will help you lead your school with confidence.
00:00:35 --> 00:00:39 Check out information on our partners along with additional resources and services
00:00:39 --> 00:00:43 at www.awbeducation.org.
00:00:43 --> 00:00:49 Now, here is your booster shot. All right, welcome back to your booster shot from AWB Education.
00:00:49 --> 00:00:52 Thanks for joining us again today. I'm happy to have Dr.
00:00:52 --> 00:00:55 Chad Lang from Recalibrated Services on with me today.
00:00:56 --> 00:00:59 We're going to talk a little bit about how to develop some curriculum effectively.
00:00:59 --> 00:01:02 We're going to talk about this within your buildings, within the PLCs.
00:01:03 --> 00:01:06 Right down at the heart of the work that we're trying to do every day and the
00:01:06 --> 00:01:09 boots on the ground work to steal a typical education cliche.
00:01:10 --> 00:01:13 But welcome, Chad. Thanks for joining me today. Thanks a lot,
00:01:13 --> 00:01:15 Adam. I appreciate the invite. Look forward to the conversation.
00:01:16 --> 00:01:18 Absolutely. Well, I know a lot of us, we sit there and we think,
00:01:19 --> 00:01:23 you know, that school curriculum, it's sometimes more of a dusty textbook if
00:01:23 --> 00:01:27 we don't turn it into something that's that dynamic roadmap for student success.
00:01:27 --> 00:01:32 And so as we really start diving into what curriculum work can look like,
00:01:32 --> 00:01:38 this isn't just that one time in the summer day, we answer all of our questions
00:01:38 --> 00:01:39 and then it's done, right?
00:01:39 --> 00:01:44 It's a long-term process and one that we are constantly working towards.
00:01:44 --> 00:01:49 So as we're talking today about just driving curriculum improvement through
00:01:49 --> 00:01:53 the PLCs, this isn't just another typical meeting on the calendar, right?
00:01:53 --> 00:01:57 As we talk about what that process looks like, how do we get started in that?
00:01:57 --> 00:02:01 What's that mentality that we least need to start with before we enter this process?
00:02:01 --> 00:02:07 You know, it's somewhat evolved, Adam, in my career as an administrator in the
00:02:07 --> 00:02:13 last decade or so in that more often than not, I find that sometimes I feel
00:02:13 --> 00:02:16 like our teachers have a little bit of a permission culture issue.
00:02:16 --> 00:02:19 Absolutely. And what I mean by that is.
00:02:19 --> 00:02:24 Not always, but oftentimes teachers are a product of being great students themselves.
00:02:25 --> 00:02:28 They follow the expectations really, really well.
00:02:28 --> 00:02:33 They love some black and white rules about how school is supposed to feel and look.
00:02:33 --> 00:02:39 And so that mentality really translates into the profession, which is great.
00:02:39 --> 00:02:43 We love organized, committed, dedicated, rule-following employees.
00:02:43 --> 00:02:48 Absolutely, yeah. But when it comes to understanding and unpacking standards.
00:02:48 --> 00:02:56 And we really think 2001 on, they're complex, they're long, they're not student
00:02:56 --> 00:03:00 friendly, they're not parent friendly, and oftentimes they're not even teacher friendly.
00:03:00 --> 00:03:04 And so thinking about what permission do we have as a learning culture,
00:03:05 --> 00:03:09 first and foremost, just to unpack what standards they are, whether they're
00:03:09 --> 00:03:13 Iowa core standards or state standards, national standards,
00:03:14 --> 00:03:18 standards of the workplace, like OSHA, and thinking about, first of all,
00:03:19 --> 00:03:22 what permission, what is the mindset around our school or our school district
00:03:22 --> 00:03:26 organization that would allow us to even make sense of the standards?
00:03:26 --> 00:03:32 That's something that I've evolved on and really from a clinical approach and
00:03:32 --> 00:03:36 taking a template and kind of working through unpacking standards with teachers
00:03:36 --> 00:03:38 to really getting at a mindset.
00:03:38 --> 00:03:42 First, I know that you're willing to unpack and unwrap them,
00:03:42 --> 00:03:46 but do you feel like you have the permission to turn them into action?
00:03:46 --> 00:03:50 Like, what would you do if you knew this standard really meant?
00:03:51 --> 00:03:55 Part of that is like you're stating there. It's not that, you know,
00:03:55 --> 00:03:58 this is a mandated thing. there is some personality to this.
00:03:58 --> 00:04:01 Like we have that opportunity to do something with it. It's just a tool.
00:04:01 --> 00:04:03 It's a tool to get us going in that right direction.
00:04:03 --> 00:04:10 And that's the power of a collaborative team is that you want a little bit different
00:04:10 --> 00:04:16 lens from multiple people to unpack and not just have that confirmation of,
00:04:16 --> 00:04:21 oh, we all know what citing an inference means or citing evidence,
00:04:21 --> 00:04:22 excuse me, or making an inference.
00:04:22 --> 00:04:25 We know we've been doing this a long time.
00:04:25 --> 00:04:31 And what I love to see when teams are really into PLC right versus PLC light,
00:04:31 --> 00:04:36 you'll oftentimes hear is they don't even know that they're asking clarifying
00:04:36 --> 00:04:38 questions and they're getting that teacher clarity.
00:04:39 --> 00:04:43 When they start to talk about the instructional moves related to the standard
00:04:43 --> 00:04:47 or relating to the learning target or relating to the essential learning,
00:04:47 --> 00:04:48 whatever your district, all of it.
00:04:49 --> 00:04:53 And I just love to see that. But you have to create a culture where people even
00:04:53 --> 00:04:57 feel permitted to say, well, now that I know what it means or what I think it
00:04:57 --> 00:04:59 means, what do you all think it means?
00:04:59 --> 00:05:03 And then what does it actually look like in instruction and an assessment?
00:05:04 --> 00:05:11 That is just powerful to see done. But I think I've evolved in answering that
00:05:11 --> 00:05:14 question towards, first of all, let's create a culture where we understand what
00:05:14 --> 00:05:18 it means and it can be messy. And I don't think people like that.
00:05:18 --> 00:05:21 I don't think they, I think, like I had mentioned, alluded to earlier.
00:05:22 --> 00:05:29 Teachers like neat, tidy organization and touch it once and move on and, and so on and so forth.
00:05:29 --> 00:05:32 But in order for us to differentiate for all the different learners we have,
00:05:32 --> 00:05:37 and from year to year, you know, cohorts of students take on the flavors of
00:05:37 --> 00:05:41 challenges, just how they've moved through their school experience,
00:05:41 --> 00:05:44 or they've come to us from different places.
00:05:44 --> 00:05:49 We need to actually ask ourselves in a continuous way, how can we unpack and unwrap the standards?
00:05:49 --> 00:05:52 Not that that changes all the time, but just to make sure that we have teacher
00:05:52 --> 00:05:57 adult clarity, because actually, usually our teams rarely stay the exact same. Well, that's just it.
00:05:57 --> 00:06:01 I mean, as soon as you get rolling and then you get to next summer and you've
00:06:01 --> 00:06:04 had a little changeover and bringing the next people on or other people in the
00:06:04 --> 00:06:06 team, that's just hard. I get that.
00:06:06 --> 00:06:09 I mean, when we talk about being co-creators of that curriculum,
00:06:09 --> 00:06:12 there is a piece there too for our leaders as well, right?
00:06:12 --> 00:06:16 Your principals or your assistant principals or even district office administrators.
00:06:16 --> 00:06:19 What is that main role right out of the gates as you're getting prepared?
00:06:19 --> 00:06:22 As you're typically doing this work, Chad, what do you do to make sure that
00:06:22 --> 00:06:26 you're getting a good foundation set for this work? I think the first thing
00:06:26 --> 00:06:28 we do is set a vision for what success looks like.
00:06:28 --> 00:06:32 What will we want to look like for this content area or this grade level by
00:06:32 --> 00:06:34 the end of the year, the end of two years?
00:06:35 --> 00:06:38 Academically, are we talking nine months? Are we talking 12 months?
00:06:38 --> 00:06:40 Really get into having a roadmap and having a plan.
00:06:41 --> 00:06:45 And then backwards designing it all the way to current day. So successful look
00:06:45 --> 00:06:50 like we have unwrapped all the new Iowa core social studies standards,
00:06:50 --> 00:06:55 and we will have reprioritized those standards as a team by the end of X.
00:06:56 --> 00:07:00 And getting a picture of what that looks like, again, going back to teachers
00:07:00 --> 00:07:03 and making a generalized statement, they really like to plan.
00:07:03 --> 00:07:07 And I think being able to have the opportunity to, as a leader,
00:07:07 --> 00:07:09 set that vision, because you're going to understand the schedule.
00:07:09 --> 00:07:14 You're going to understand the nuances related maybe to even the allowable schedule
00:07:14 --> 00:07:17 that your district can have, whether that's some protected collaborative time
00:07:17 --> 00:07:19 or whether that's going to be outside the school day.
00:07:20 --> 00:07:23 And so, you know, cause that's going to be your next question is,
00:07:23 --> 00:07:24 well, how are we going to do this?
00:07:25 --> 00:07:29 Absolutely. And so if you can sort of have a plan for that, because you're going
00:07:29 --> 00:07:34 to be able to pull levers as a leader and a manager that just simply other folks can't do.
00:07:34 --> 00:07:38 And instead it can be overwhelming to look at that whole vision and then not
00:07:38 --> 00:07:40 be able to answer the questions.
00:07:40 --> 00:07:42 Yeah, that's great. When are we going to be able to do that?
00:07:42 --> 00:07:43 How's that going to look?
00:07:44 --> 00:07:46 And then I think the third piece I would share is as a leader,
00:07:46 --> 00:07:50 what can you do to prepare is be involved as a learner, as an adult learner,
00:07:51 --> 00:07:52 and be really vulnerable.
00:07:52 --> 00:07:55 And what that means is sitting down with collaborative teams,
00:07:56 --> 00:07:58 participating in the work, not overtaking it.
00:07:58 --> 00:08:01 And that's something I have to challenge myself to do as a social studies teacher.
00:08:02 --> 00:08:07 I rarely go to social studies ever because I have a bias. I see my own self
00:08:07 --> 00:08:09 teaching the class, and that's actually a curse of knowing.
00:08:10 --> 00:08:13 And just because I've taught something doesn't mean I taught it well.
00:08:13 --> 00:08:17 In order that I even really understood the standards to the degree that makes our teams now.
00:08:17 --> 00:08:21 So I try to go opposite of what my natural inclination would be.
00:08:21 --> 00:08:25 So sometimes that's preschool or early education literacy, your foundational
00:08:25 --> 00:08:29 skills, which I really don't know a lot about, but I can ask them great clarifying
00:08:29 --> 00:08:34 questions and gauge how well the team can answer them.
00:08:34 --> 00:08:38 And then I can coach and lead them in different root cause questioning around
00:08:38 --> 00:08:40 the standards. What would that look like? How long would that take?
00:08:40 --> 00:08:44 How would you know someone's successful in first grade? what would the student
00:08:44 --> 00:08:48 actually be doing on the assessment? Would they actually be physically touching the letters?
00:08:48 --> 00:08:52 You know, asking a lot of those clarifying questions is a great role for me.
00:08:52 --> 00:08:55 And then sharing some vulnerabilities saying, you know, in 20 years,
00:08:55 --> 00:08:58 I've never had to try to design an assessment for welding.
00:08:59 --> 00:09:03 What would that look like? Could you show me? And I think that honors adult
00:09:03 --> 00:09:06 learners really well too within your organization because it honors theirs.
00:09:07 --> 00:09:11 Well, I think it also gives you that opportunity to really not only focus on
00:09:11 --> 00:09:13 the process and keep that part moving.
00:09:13 --> 00:09:17 But it also means that you don't, you can take your Superman cape off for a
00:09:17 --> 00:09:20 second. You don't have to be an expert just because you're in this team.
00:09:20 --> 00:09:23 That's why you brought everybody else in. That's why you brought the experts
00:09:23 --> 00:09:25 that can really talk to the grade level or talk to the content,
00:09:25 --> 00:09:28 whereas we can help keep that process going. I think that's awesome.
00:09:29 --> 00:09:32 Great way to not give lip service to you. That's true.
00:09:32 --> 00:09:36 I really recognize your expertise. Go with it. Let me know how it goes.
00:09:37 --> 00:09:39 It's a little bit different than that because you're actually in,
00:09:39 --> 00:09:42 you're in the throes. You're kind of with them. You're not with them all the
00:09:42 --> 00:09:44 time. She can't be with every team all the time.
00:09:44 --> 00:09:48 And not all teams are made up by more than just two people.
00:09:48 --> 00:09:52 That's true. I work with world language. There's just two. Yeah, yeah. In some cases.
00:09:52 --> 00:09:57 And so, you know, I make three when I'm with them or maybe an instructional coach makes four.
00:09:57 --> 00:10:01 And so we just have to be cognizant that we don't dominate this conversation
00:10:01 --> 00:10:03 or ask too many questions. I just stall them out.
00:10:03 --> 00:10:08 But it does demonstrate a vulnerability and sort of relational capacity.
00:10:08 --> 00:10:13 Like you guys are the experts, no question about it. And there's a great,
00:10:13 --> 00:10:15 there's some great instructional strategies as far as instructional coaching
00:10:15 --> 00:10:18 goes that you can really utilize.
00:10:18 --> 00:10:21 I've learned that from our instructional coaches over the years.
00:10:21 --> 00:10:24 Just how do I have a great conversation by asking clarifying questions and not
00:10:24 --> 00:10:26 being sort of passive aggressive or indicting?
00:10:26 --> 00:10:29 I think it's super important. Yeah, that's a good point there, too.
00:10:29 --> 00:10:34 Okay, well, I know we can't really fast forward, but we're going to try to fast forward right now.
00:10:34 --> 00:10:38 We're going to pretend that we've had this work done in the larger group.
00:10:38 --> 00:10:41 We've had the opportunity to really dive into what our standards are going to be.
00:10:41 --> 00:10:46 Like you said, this is an ongoing process. It's going to continue to evolve
00:10:46 --> 00:10:50 and continue to need some refinement. So if we get down to the building level,
00:10:50 --> 00:10:53 we're going to talk about what this looks like at the PLC level.
00:10:53 --> 00:10:56 From a leader's standpoint, PLCs are not just a compliance check.
00:10:57 --> 00:11:02 I mean, this is an opportunity for us to continue to work through that process
00:11:02 --> 00:11:04 and continue to build and continue to develop.
00:11:04 --> 00:11:09 What should that look like? What does a high-functioning PLC look like when
00:11:09 --> 00:11:10 it's working on curriculum work?
00:11:10 --> 00:11:16 Well, I think you're really seeing teammates challenge each other beyond what
00:11:16 --> 00:11:20 we in PLC at work, they call the first question is what is it that we want students to know or do?
00:11:20 --> 00:11:24 A team, a collaborative team that is trying to examine curriculum oftentimes
00:11:24 --> 00:11:29 will just actually want to skip over that because oftentimes organized school
00:11:29 --> 00:11:33 districts, of course, have a guaranteed viable curriculum that either the district
00:11:33 --> 00:11:34 has created or provided.
00:11:34 --> 00:11:37 And so they're kind of looking at each other like, I don't get it.
00:11:37 --> 00:11:42 What are we supposed to talk about around what is it that a student is supposed to know or do?
00:11:42 --> 00:11:47 Here it is. We have a great opportunity when we see teams get granular about
00:11:47 --> 00:11:49 what that question means,
00:11:50 --> 00:11:53 particularly in districts that are a little bit smaller or school buildings
00:11:53 --> 00:11:56 that have singletons that have come together, like maybe career and technical
00:11:56 --> 00:11:58 education. You might have like a foods teacher.
00:11:59 --> 00:12:03 It's important that they don't glaze over not the what so much around the content,
00:12:03 --> 00:12:06 but the skill, because that's what they're going to be able to have.
00:12:06 --> 00:12:10 That commonality piece I see over and over again in high performing teams,
00:12:10 --> 00:12:15 they get to be really excited about what it is procedurally or skill wise they're
00:12:15 --> 00:12:21 seeing or desiring and then how to teach it and assess it and not being so heavy in the content.
00:12:22 --> 00:12:25 Yeah. So thinking about your PLC at work questions right there,
00:12:25 --> 00:12:26 when we start talking about student data.
00:12:26 --> 00:12:30 Okay, so now we're going to get to the, you know, what do you do when they don't
00:12:30 --> 00:12:32 know it? What do we do when they do know it? Of course.
00:12:32 --> 00:12:36 What data are we using when we're talking about curriculum change?
00:12:36 --> 00:12:40 Typically, when we have those discussions around data, it's about assessment, right?
00:12:40 --> 00:12:44 And we're thinking about instruction, which is great, but that data can also
00:12:44 --> 00:12:45 lead to curriculum as well.
00:12:45 --> 00:12:48 How do we use student data when we're having curriculum conversations?
00:12:49 --> 00:12:53 Yeah, that's a great question. And what I'd love to see, and I think we can
00:12:53 --> 00:12:59 do a lot more of this, is looking at both the two words of guaranteed and viable.
00:13:00 --> 00:13:03 Guaranteed, we tend to see better success with our teams.
00:13:04 --> 00:13:08 I don't know any teachers who are purposefully excluding kids from having access
00:13:08 --> 00:13:14 to the curriculum, but it's not viable in the design from jump. There's just too much.
00:13:14 --> 00:13:18 Everything, if everything's important, nothing's important. And so that ability
00:13:18 --> 00:13:21 to be able to prioritize standards is essential.
00:13:21 --> 00:13:28 And then how we pace and organize them on a nine month count where we can build
00:13:28 --> 00:13:33 in pause time to actually intervene in really what I call tier one and a half.
00:13:33 --> 00:13:39 Like I know you're stopping and pausing mid lesson, but you tried to do something
00:13:39 --> 00:13:44 different in the pacing guide in your own classroom before we think about the
00:13:44 --> 00:13:48 full MTSS German or an RTI type setup.
00:13:48 --> 00:13:54 And they never set the pacing. Very rarely are they natural at setting the pacing to do that.
00:13:54 --> 00:13:57 And we have to, we call those pause days and some people call them flex days.
00:13:57 --> 00:14:03 And so the data we look at is how many days have we consistently dedicated or
00:14:03 --> 00:14:08 weeks or blocks of time and how successful were we in staying on that pacing
00:14:08 --> 00:14:10 in the past so that everything is a priority.
00:14:10 --> 00:14:13 And I always used to joke, because I'm an old American history teacher,
00:14:13 --> 00:14:18 that when this wasn't done, when I taught American history from 1877 to present,
00:14:18 --> 00:14:22 apparently nothing happened after about World War II, sometimes Cold War,
00:14:22 --> 00:14:23 because we never got there.
00:14:24 --> 00:14:29 Tons of important history, you can't do that. And I oftentimes use that as an
00:14:29 --> 00:14:30 example when teams are like,
00:14:31 --> 00:14:35 we've got to get through all of these things. And I said, there's a big difference
00:14:35 --> 00:14:39 between covering and learning and getting out that coverage culture.
00:14:39 --> 00:14:42 If you don't look at the data about how did that go last year?
00:14:42 --> 00:14:46 And we even try to encourage our teams to be so granular that we would map it
00:14:46 --> 00:14:52 out to the nuances of our local communities calendar, like homecoming.
00:14:52 --> 00:14:54 What does that do to us? It does a lot to us.
00:14:55 --> 00:15:00 And I think you can research out there some great research from like Mike Mattos
00:15:00 --> 00:15:04 as an example to say, you really don't even have in New York close to 180 gloves.
00:15:04 --> 00:15:08 You take out pep assemblies and weather and all those different things. Absolutely.
00:15:09 --> 00:15:11 Full moons. I think that really has something to do with it.
00:15:11 --> 00:15:14 You know, you maybe have a hundred or 110 days.
00:15:14 --> 00:15:20 And so we really talk about that and try to get granular about planning and planning to intervene.
00:15:21 --> 00:15:25 And most of the folks that I work with that are athletic coaches,
00:15:25 --> 00:15:30 if they have the ability to plan their practice schedule, they have a better sense of that analogy.
00:15:31 --> 00:15:32 But there comes back to what we
00:15:32 --> 00:15:35 talked about at the beginning of this conversation is permission culture.
00:15:35 --> 00:15:40 Do I have permission to pause when the person that teaches the same course across
00:15:40 --> 00:15:42 the hall isn't doing that?
00:15:43 --> 00:15:46 And, you know, so we have talked about culture to set that up.
00:15:46 --> 00:15:50 So we're looking at data around curriculum, making sure that the data is, hey,
00:15:50 --> 00:15:54 green light, Did the very last learning standard in the pacing in this late
00:15:54 --> 00:16:00 spring get the same due credit, not only for coverage, but for actual full learning
00:16:00 --> 00:16:03 as did the very first learning outcome,
00:16:03 --> 00:16:05 if your pacing is set that low.
00:16:05 --> 00:16:09 So you're talking about culture. I mean, I realize that collective efficacy
00:16:09 --> 00:16:11 is always something that we're trying to get to.
00:16:11 --> 00:16:15 But sometimes even like what we're talking about here when we're talking about
00:16:15 --> 00:16:19 curriculum and we're not necessarily talking about a lesson plan or the activities
00:16:19 --> 00:16:21 we're doing. And we're really talking about that.
00:16:21 --> 00:16:25 Question one, if you're a leader and you have a PLC that's struggling to get
00:16:25 --> 00:16:29 moving forward with this, and maybe it's some personal issues that people are
00:16:29 --> 00:16:33 dealing with, or maybe it's just we're struggling with grasping this concept.
00:16:33 --> 00:16:37 What are some coaching points that a school administrator can use to try to
00:16:37 --> 00:16:38 kind of help get that group unstuck?
00:16:38 --> 00:16:42 It kind of depends, Adam, what their challenge is. I mean, if one of their challenge
00:16:42 --> 00:16:47 is we're not sure what the ROI is, sometimes, you know, I have a way,
00:16:48 --> 00:16:52 my way works, you know, quote unquote, then that provides a different challenge.
00:16:52 --> 00:16:54 But usually it's just, I need to see it.
00:16:56 --> 00:17:00 Oftentimes, whether you want to go full blown, like I want to go watch another
00:17:00 --> 00:17:01 collaborative team meeting.
00:17:01 --> 00:17:05 And that is super valuable if you can pull that off or a video.
00:17:05 --> 00:17:08 But even the tangible products, like, can I see a pacing guide for algebra?
00:17:08 --> 00:17:13 Bro, I'd love to just see what maybe to get started. Or do you have templates?
00:17:13 --> 00:17:14 And I think that's important.
00:17:15 --> 00:17:20 And we shouldn't be surprised by that. I mean, any of us to have taken any undergraduate
00:17:20 --> 00:17:21 or graduate courses that have
00:17:21 --> 00:17:24 a project or a paper, what's the first thing people ask the professor?
00:17:25 --> 00:17:28 Can I see an example? Can I see an example? Yep, absolutely.
00:17:29 --> 00:17:31 I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing. So I think what I've tried to
00:17:31 --> 00:17:37 challenge myself is when they're stuck, it's, are they stuck in that stage of
00:17:37 --> 00:17:43 unconscious incompetence that I just don't know what I don't know? And so now I can see it.
00:17:44 --> 00:17:47 And there's some great example the school leader could provide.
00:17:47 --> 00:17:50 And think about the culture that I currently have on whether that example would
00:17:50 --> 00:17:54 come from within the walls of my build or should it come from outside and not
00:17:54 --> 00:17:58 really be affiliated with our state or our community so that it's just more
00:17:58 --> 00:18:00 generic and we don't focus on who it is,
00:18:01 --> 00:18:03 but rather what it looks like. So that might be a pacing guide.
00:18:03 --> 00:18:06 That might be backwards design summative assessment or formative assessment
00:18:06 --> 00:18:11 or the whole battery of how we would plan and pace and interplay between all
00:18:11 --> 00:18:15 of those tools in the process so that, A, you don't overwhelm people.
00:18:15 --> 00:18:19 But oftentimes what I find is teams are closer than they think they are with
00:18:19 --> 00:18:22 some of the tools and processes they already have in place.
00:18:22 --> 00:18:26 But they need to see that. They're like, oh, so when you say a common formative
00:18:26 --> 00:18:30 assessment, we have that checkpoint quiz that we all use. Correct.
00:18:30 --> 00:18:34 Great. That's what we're talking about. Now let's take a look at it for alignment.
00:18:34 --> 00:18:37 Let's make sure it's aligned. Your team will do that as a practice.
00:18:37 --> 00:18:41 And this is a process or a protocol that we can use, but that comes along the way.
00:18:41 --> 00:18:46 But I think just providing some tangible examples can go a long way,
00:18:46 --> 00:18:52 but you have to understand maybe what those are to start as a lawyer with individual teams.
00:18:52 --> 00:18:56 As you're talking through that, I had this same process with a group,
00:18:56 --> 00:18:58 oh, probably four years ago now, five years ago now.
00:18:59 --> 00:19:02 Finally, I ended up having a one-on-one conversation with the person in the
00:19:02 --> 00:19:07 group that was kind of maybe the de facto leader of the group and just really walk through that.
00:19:07 --> 00:19:11 Like they needed to understand this first. And once that light bulb turned on,
00:19:11 --> 00:19:13 it was easy from that point forward.
00:19:13 --> 00:19:15 They just took and ran with it. And it's just funny. I was like,
00:19:16 --> 00:19:19 I had to get down to that nitty gritty first before it was ever going to be
00:19:19 --> 00:19:22 possible in that group. Well, I mean, I see it all the time, Adam.
00:19:22 --> 00:19:24 It's Daniel Pink's work, right? Mastery, autonomy, and purpose.
00:19:25 --> 00:19:27 If people's validation in their
00:19:27 --> 00:19:30 workplace comes as adults, comes from confidence. I'm a big contributor.
00:19:31 --> 00:19:34 I know things around here. And as soon as you change systems,
00:19:34 --> 00:19:40 it's like you've ripped their confidence because they don't have confidence in what you're doing.
00:19:40 --> 00:19:44 They think they don't. And so it's perceived as like, I'm not Mr. Lang anymore.
00:19:44 --> 00:19:46 I'm not the go-to. I'm not the guru.
00:19:46 --> 00:19:50 And so that'll create a friction Like right off the jump, but if we can get
00:19:50 --> 00:19:54 them closer to it, and then it's funny because a year from then they're the
00:19:54 --> 00:19:56 person's like, oh no, we can't do four minutes.
00:19:57 --> 00:20:01 Yep. Yep. Exactly. Yep. Now I've got it. They're always like the biggest champions.
00:20:01 --> 00:20:03 I see it more in grading and assessment.
00:20:03 --> 00:20:07 Like there's more irony in some of my folks that are like, man,
00:20:07 --> 00:20:10 six years ago, you wanted to like drag me out of here.
00:20:10 --> 00:20:13 And now I think we went too far on some things and you're like,
00:20:14 --> 00:20:15 no, we have to do it that way.
00:20:16 --> 00:20:21 It's awesome. So what does a truly sustainable collaborative curriculum culture
00:20:21 --> 00:20:24 look like when it's going well in practice?
00:20:24 --> 00:20:27 You know, we're talking about this process, but again, it's never ending.
00:20:28 --> 00:20:31 It's going to continue to evolve as we evolve with kids.
00:20:31 --> 00:20:35 So as I'm trying to get that moving down the road and make that sustainable,
00:20:36 --> 00:20:39 what are some tips or what are some things that I should do as a leader or even
00:20:39 --> 00:20:43 just a member of that PLC to keep this going? So a couple of things I can think of, Adam.
00:20:43 --> 00:20:49 The first thing is I would want to work with or develop a guiding coalition if I haven't already,
00:20:49 --> 00:20:56 that's going to help be peer leaders for the sustainability of highly collaborative
00:20:56 --> 00:20:58 teams that are focused on results for kids.
00:20:59 --> 00:21:02 Because they have so much more credibility. And as a leader,
00:21:02 --> 00:21:05 you should be on that team, but they're going to have sustainability.
00:21:05 --> 00:21:09 People are going to roll on and off of our staff. They're going to even change
00:21:09 --> 00:21:11 a little bit, but you have some distributed leadership there.
00:21:12 --> 00:21:17 And then with that team, I think it's a great idea to develop what some districts
00:21:17 --> 00:21:21 call like a rubric or a coaching collaborative tool, like how to coach teams,
00:21:21 --> 00:21:25 how to self-assess, how to team self-assess, how they're doing like on the four
00:21:25 --> 00:21:26 questions, for example.
00:21:27 --> 00:21:33 And every year you just sort of move what was in emerging to proficient,
00:21:33 --> 00:21:34 proficient to exceptional,
00:21:35 --> 00:21:40 continue to push your organization along subtly by making them self-assess and
00:21:40 --> 00:21:46 then giving them the autonomy to say, hey, we don't have an assessment protocol. We want to be there.
00:21:46 --> 00:21:51 That's the type of coaching we need. We don't need someone in a performing arts
00:21:51 --> 00:21:53 center on a stage for six hours.
00:21:53 --> 00:21:56 When you're performing well it's kind
00:21:56 --> 00:21:59 of like a great coach they have lots of position coaches right
00:21:59 --> 00:22:02 in football and so they have experts that are tailored to
00:22:02 --> 00:22:05 their position where they're at and they break out in the film rooms
00:22:05 --> 00:22:08 and and they get what they need when they need it and they can own
00:22:08 --> 00:22:11 what they need and they sort of vote with their feet but you have to have somewhat
00:22:11 --> 00:22:16 of a standardized rubric of expectations of what the actions would look like
00:22:16 --> 00:22:19 and sometimes there's products or performances like common assessments and things
00:22:19 --> 00:22:24 like that you want to see maybe schedules and have that driven through your
00:22:24 --> 00:22:25 guiding coalition because.
00:22:26 --> 00:22:29 Those are going to be the peers they're looking for, and it's not going to be
00:22:29 --> 00:22:31 a compliance measure so much.
00:22:31 --> 00:22:34 And then the support that you can provide as a leader or the guiding coalition
00:22:34 --> 00:22:38 can provide is exactly based off what they told you they needed and wanted. Absolutely.
00:22:38 --> 00:22:41 And I rarely get had teams say, well, we're good.
00:22:42 --> 00:22:45 We're all the way to the right on all of these, because that's usually where
00:22:45 --> 00:22:47 I ask for the examples to share with the rest of the staff.
00:22:47 --> 00:22:51 Oh, then I'm going to bring a team to you or I'm or I'm going to I'd like to
00:22:51 --> 00:22:53 share that assessment protocol tool you need.
00:22:53 --> 00:22:56 Well, we're not that good. Hold on a second. okay well we got some refinement
00:22:56 --> 00:23:00 all right that's good that's a good thing too and so
00:23:00 --> 00:23:03 that's usually what i see and and i really kind of like some
00:23:03 --> 00:23:06 of the reading i've done lately on plc plus with
00:23:06 --> 00:23:10 fisher and pride because they they talk about a growth mindset you'll hear like
00:23:10 --> 00:23:15 when highly functional teams they're they're recognizing the positive they're
00:23:15 --> 00:23:19 doing lots of celebrations and you'll you'll sort of intermittently just hear
00:23:19 --> 00:23:24 people share you'll see the culture of the teams actually change. They'll be sharing.
00:23:24 --> 00:23:30 I was working with Bobby or Susie, and it was so awesome to see them use our
00:23:30 --> 00:23:34 new strategy for number lines or whatever it is, versus,
00:23:34 --> 00:23:38 you know, in more of a toxic, negative culture or a deficit-minded culture,
00:23:38 --> 00:23:43 and then lamenting about what everybody can't do or their most struggling students.
00:23:43 --> 00:23:47 Or they're perfectly silent because they don't have enough trust with each other
00:23:47 --> 00:23:49 to have that conversation. That's always scary, too.
00:23:51 --> 00:23:56 Bring data to the table when that's the case either. So, and really,
00:23:56 --> 00:23:58 Chad Dumas, I love to follow him.
00:23:58 --> 00:24:03 And he is so mic'd up about like, hey, let's put the professional and the learning
00:24:03 --> 00:24:09 in the community and really make sure our adults understand what those abbreviations mean.
00:24:09 --> 00:24:13 It's like we should hear professional and learning conversations instead of
00:24:13 --> 00:24:18 kind of compliance, check the box, being a little bit too agenda driven and
00:24:18 --> 00:24:20 having a really rigid type of agenda.
00:24:20 --> 00:24:25 And if you want to learn more about that kind of thinking and how that should
00:24:25 --> 00:24:28 look, you know, Ken Williams has some great stuff, Unfold the Soul.
00:24:28 --> 00:24:32 We're not about agendas and minutes and really more about, you know,
00:24:33 --> 00:24:36 professional learning that we've been able to do from one another to get them
00:24:36 --> 00:24:38 to a better place in their learning journey.
00:24:38 --> 00:24:41 So it's a lot of great resources out there too. How do you help create that
00:24:41 --> 00:24:46 atmosphere where if teachers have concerns or other members of the group are
00:24:46 --> 00:24:49 having concerns, they feel safe not only to voice that opinion,
00:24:49 --> 00:24:52 but how do you create that culture where,
00:24:52 --> 00:24:56 like you were talking about within that collaborative culture where everybody's, you know.
00:24:56 --> 00:25:00 Involved in that conversation, but there are times where people do get uncomfortable
00:25:00 --> 00:25:03 and sometimes it's hard to admit that.
00:25:03 --> 00:25:08 How do you help develop that piece of the culture that's going to invite those conversations as well?
00:25:08 --> 00:25:12 The best way that I've figured out how to do that is to walk the talk myself
00:25:12 --> 00:25:21 as a school leader and model any opportunity that I can, that I can legally and responsibly.
00:25:21 --> 00:25:26 I want to make sure that our teams, the teachers on our staff,
00:25:26 --> 00:25:31 where I'm a leader can see me authentically in an environment where I'm learning.
00:25:32 --> 00:25:39 I'm pondering, I'm reflecting, I'm asking questions, and I challenge my colleagues as a professional.
00:25:39 --> 00:25:43 Now, sometimes as school leaders, we have to talk about that as a team.
00:25:43 --> 00:25:44 What's that going to look like?
00:25:44 --> 00:25:48 Here's what I want to try to press upon to our staff.
00:25:48 --> 00:25:52 So it's not staged, but we need to set the groundwork for what that might look like.
00:25:52 --> 00:25:57 Now, I know that when we're maybe doing a mini presentation on something about
00:25:57 --> 00:26:00 PLCs, we're going to both be kind of handing things off back and forth.
00:26:00 --> 00:26:03 But would you be comfortable if I had a question in the middle of what you're
00:26:03 --> 00:26:07 presenting and I actually asked you? And this is the middle school principal.
00:26:08 --> 00:26:12 I'm there as a district administrator. So there's this assumed power structure, right?
00:26:13 --> 00:26:19 And I think thinking, being very reflective and planful for where I can observe,
00:26:20 --> 00:26:23 I always chuckle because I feel like teachers are in many ways,
00:26:24 --> 00:26:27 look at their leaders like kids look at the teachers at the grocery store.
00:26:28 --> 00:26:32 It's true. But it's everything, right? And I'm very cognizant of that.
00:26:32 --> 00:26:34 And I don't think it's in a negative way.
00:26:34 --> 00:26:37 I think they're just inquisitive. If they don't see me in their building a lot
00:26:37 --> 00:26:41 or they don't know me very well, you know, how I dress and how I interact with the students.
00:26:42 --> 00:26:47 And so if they're doing that in an informal way, I know when we're in a formal
00:26:47 --> 00:26:50 setting, they're definitely observing how we interact as professionals,
00:26:50 --> 00:26:53 how we talk how we resolve problems.
00:26:54 --> 00:26:58 I think that's very important that not all problems are resolved behind closed
00:26:58 --> 00:27:02 doors at the central office, but that we have to resolve problems and then maybe
00:27:02 --> 00:27:04 not come to a resolution right there.
00:27:04 --> 00:27:07 Maybe it's like, you know what? I need to think about that for a week.
00:27:08 --> 00:27:12 Can we come back next week and think about how we're going to assess creating
00:27:12 --> 00:27:15 a model with NPSS standards for a fourth grader?
00:27:16 --> 00:27:20 Because I think sometimes we feel very bound by time scheduled, and oftentimes we are.
00:27:20 --> 00:27:23 But when it comes to problem solving, thinking through best practice,
00:27:24 --> 00:27:27 sometimes we just need to model that marination as well.
00:27:27 --> 00:27:31 So that's what I've found to work well. Now, I don't have people coming out
00:27:31 --> 00:27:34 of the woodwork saying, hey, you know, what made our team so much better is
00:27:34 --> 00:27:36 when I saw you be vulnerable.
00:27:36 --> 00:27:40 But I do feel like certainly when I've been a central office leader.
00:27:41 --> 00:27:45 When I'm in schools and with teams, they feel more comfortable that I'm not
00:27:45 --> 00:27:50 there to judge them and evaluate their performance as a team, but rather be excited.
00:27:51 --> 00:27:53 And then the last thing I was going to share with you is celebrate.
00:27:53 --> 00:27:57 You know, how do you celebrate and demonstrate celebration that's authentic,
00:27:57 --> 00:28:00 that would really hit home with the teams that you have?
00:28:00 --> 00:28:05 Because not all of your teams, their love language is a tweet or a Facebook
00:28:05 --> 00:28:08 post about data dives and things like that.
00:28:08 --> 00:28:13 It's different. And so really understanding that and giving good credence to
00:28:13 --> 00:28:15 how we celebrate is also some good advice, I would say.
00:28:16 --> 00:28:19 Well, and then celebrating on the way too, because like we've said a couple
00:28:19 --> 00:28:22 of times during this episode, this process never really truly ends.
00:28:22 --> 00:28:27 Like you never get to hoist the state championship trophy of curriculum development, right?
00:28:27 --> 00:28:29 You just, the next time around, we're going to start doing this again.
00:28:30 --> 00:28:32 And so, yeah, if we don't celebrate as we're going through that,
00:28:33 --> 00:28:35 then you're never going to get to that point to celebrate. So that's a good point.
00:28:35 --> 00:28:39 So Dr. Lange, talk to us a little bit about recalibrated services.
00:28:39 --> 00:28:43 What that is, what that means, and what's available for our school leaders out
00:28:43 --> 00:28:47 there if they want to get in touch with you to partner with you in some of the work that you're doing.
00:28:47 --> 00:28:51 So Recalibrated Services is a consulting platform that really just consists
00:28:51 --> 00:28:58 of me, and it's very niche and custom for school leaders, school districts, teachers,
00:28:59 --> 00:29:04 whatever organization feels like, hey, we have a niche of an issue that is systematic
00:29:04 --> 00:29:08 in a way that touches some different areas at the same time.
00:29:09 --> 00:29:13 And the reason why I created the company is not because I have all this extra
00:29:13 --> 00:29:18 time on my hands, but we have, I've been doing some reading about this in the
00:29:18 --> 00:29:21 Harvard Business Review, which sounds really boring, but it's pretty interesting.
00:29:21 --> 00:29:23 I read it too, so I get it. Okay, all right.
00:29:24 --> 00:29:28 We tend to think our problems are extremely unique compared to anyone else.
00:29:29 --> 00:29:31 Like at our school, I'm sure you've never heard of this. And oftentimes we don't
00:29:31 --> 00:29:35 even share because you feel like, listen, you'd never understand.
00:29:35 --> 00:29:39 But actually, in most organizations, it's just simply not the case.
00:29:39 --> 00:29:43 And I certainly know of a bunch of wicked problems I've encountered in school
00:29:43 --> 00:29:44 leadership in the last 15 years.
00:29:45 --> 00:29:49 But I wondered if there was a place or a space, and there are lots of other
00:29:49 --> 00:29:51 awesome people that do this work,
00:29:51 --> 00:29:56 like for me, that are wondering, is there someone that's been pretty heavily
00:29:56 --> 00:30:02 involved in curriculum writing and research and grading and assessment and leadership?
00:30:03 --> 00:30:08 And I'm a new leader. And so I have had an opportunity to support some new leaders
00:30:08 --> 00:30:14 in some different ways. And I found that it can be overwhelming for anyone.
00:30:14 --> 00:30:19 Systematic change, because I always say that continuous school improvement efforts,
00:30:19 --> 00:30:21 just on the academic side alone,
00:30:22 --> 00:30:27 not to mention a CVH or safety or other issues that you're trying to work on
00:30:27 --> 00:30:31 is absolutely daunting for any school leader or school organization. conversation.
00:30:32 --> 00:30:37 So having another voice from another zip code that maybe can just truly look
00:30:37 --> 00:30:42 at things and say, oh, I thought we were really unique, but I really appreciate
00:30:42 --> 00:30:44 that I can, it's not a zero sum.
00:30:44 --> 00:30:50 I want to get better as a leader in leadership, but also in curriculum implementation
00:30:50 --> 00:30:52 or standards-based grading reform.
00:30:53 --> 00:30:58 And so they put things on hold in their career. or they reserve a reserve growth
00:30:58 --> 00:31:02 for a master's degree or something else and they compartmentalize it.
00:31:02 --> 00:31:07 But you and I both know, Adam, that we can't always have the liberty to do that.
00:31:07 --> 00:31:09 We don't have the time to do that. It's true. Our organization,
00:31:09 --> 00:31:12 if I'm an early career administrator,
00:31:12 --> 00:31:17 they don't have time for me to learn on the job about the systems,
00:31:17 --> 00:31:20 processes, philosophies, and procedures that we're going to do around curriculum
00:31:20 --> 00:31:24 development and instructional design, assessment, grading.
00:31:25 --> 00:31:28 They're going to expect me to be able to jump in on an even footing.
00:31:28 --> 00:31:31 And so I created Recalibrate Ed Services to be able to provide an opportunity
00:31:31 --> 00:31:35 to get some either coaching support or inspiration, or, you know,
00:31:35 --> 00:31:38 I do this work with teacher teams every week.
00:31:38 --> 00:31:41 I do support our school principals every day.
00:31:41 --> 00:31:46 And so, of course, my time's a little bit more of its evidence-based in its
00:31:46 --> 00:31:51 design and had that great merriment, research-based practice with a practitioner or focus.
00:31:51 --> 00:31:54 Chad, if somebody wants to get a hold of you, what's the best way to do so?
00:31:55 --> 00:32:00 Chadmichaellang at gmail.com, all lowercase, or you can go to recalibratedservices.com.
00:32:00 --> 00:32:01 Check out our website there.
00:32:01 --> 00:32:06 I'm on Twitter, or X, as they call it now, recalibrate underscore edu1,
00:32:06 --> 00:32:08 and I'd be happy to connect.
00:32:08 --> 00:32:12 I have the opportunity to do it, and I've learned from people all across this
00:32:12 --> 00:32:14 nation and world now, too, so it's just been a blessing.
00:32:15 --> 00:32:18 I think it's one of the great assets of our profession is the professional network.
00:32:19 --> 00:32:24 Just incredible lines. We know there's always challenging times socially, politically,
00:32:24 --> 00:32:27 economically, but just reaching out to one another and collaborating,
00:32:27 --> 00:32:32 it doesn't always have to end up being a formal type relationship or environment,
00:32:32 --> 00:32:37 but just it's great that we have this professional network in the United States
00:32:37 --> 00:32:38 and the world to lean on one another.
00:32:38 --> 00:32:42 And it's how we grow as adults as well. So really great opportunity.
00:32:43 --> 00:32:45 Thank you for, of course, including me in your podcast.
00:32:46 --> 00:32:49 Look forward to following your work in the future. Well, like you said earlier,
00:32:49 --> 00:32:52 you're probably not alone if you're out there thinking you've got something
00:32:52 --> 00:32:56 that you can get a little assistance with and just hearing other people talk
00:32:56 --> 00:32:57 about it's always really powerful.
00:32:57 --> 00:33:01 Thanks, Chad. Appreciate you being on the show today. For those of you that
00:33:01 --> 00:33:05 are listening, we have information on Chad's contact info in the podcast description.
00:33:05 --> 00:33:09 So feel free to reach out to him and partner with him to get some work done
00:33:09 --> 00:33:10 for you. That's for sure.
00:33:10 --> 00:33:13 Thanks again, Chad. Appreciate you coming on to your booster shot.
00:33:13 --> 00:33:18 Thank you for listening to this episode of your Booster Shot from AWB Education.
00:33:19 --> 00:33:23 Want to join in this mission? We are always looking for partners to help provide
00:33:23 --> 00:33:25 what our school leaders need to thrive and survive.
00:33:26 --> 00:33:32 Contact us through our webpage at www.awbeducation.org to get connected.
00:33:32 --> 00:33:37 Otherwise, remember you are doing the job that only a few are strong enough to do.
00:33:37 --> 00:33:41 Thanks for being one of the few. We will talk with you again next time.