What Really Influences Your Child's College List

Welcome to From Carpool to College, a show for parents who are trying to get ahead or just keep their sanity while navigating the college planning landscape. Thanks for joining us today on from Carpool to College. I'm Tracy Amadeo and I'm Tara Harritz. We are from Academic Mentoring, and today we're starting our season two. Tara, I know it's very exciting. I know we took a little summer hiatus and now we're back in the studios, and we do like to keep our content evergreen, so we don't like to be too seasonal with things. But we can't help but to address something we're seeing in college planning, specifically college planning. We're talking about today. It's the circle of influence that is on our students and clients, how they figure out which colleges they will apply to. I didn't say that grammatically correct, did I. That's okay. That's okay because I ended on a preposition. It's okay. We forgive you which colleges they apply Okay, that works. So we're going to take some time today to review the different avenues through which we see our clients making their college lists, and we'll give you some takeaways on what we think is in the best interest of your families. Again, because our audience from carpool to college is for parents and yes, children, if you're trapped in the car or your parents are making you listen to this episode for different reasons, maybe maybe, oh terror, maybe we should tell the parents to have their kids listen to this. Yeah, this would be a good one for sure. All right, Okay, well kids, sorry, this is what your parents listen to. In any event, we want to talk about how do our students and clients come to us with these college lists? So how should we start. Well, I think we need to do a little disclaimer that this episode is not meant to like shame anyone. Oh you're so she's so good, And it's not meant. To point fingers. But I think it's really good to just have that awareness of these are the outside forces that are influencing a lot of students nowadays, right, and it's good to just be aware and kind of know this is where it's coming from. Not that you want to fight back, but you want to make sure that you're making the right decisions along the way. Right, And what we're also seeing and parents, you probably see this. Certainly, school counselors like me, We see that our American students are applying to the same thirty schools yep, big ones yep. And yes, there's some regional variations for sure. However, there are some big schools that every single student is, you know, that schools on their list. Even when I went to the KNACK ACT, the National Association for College Admissions Counselors the one year I don't know if it was two years ago, the keynote was the guy who runs the college Board. Okay, I always joke about because I feel like they're the educational mafia. But it's true. She's laughing. She just to give me a look like Cole, I'm gonna wake up with a horsehead next to me. Well, the college Board wouldn't do a horse head. They would do like like an encyclopedia set or something. I'm gonna wake up with the old encyclopedia set next to me instead on my husband's head. Anyway, but he did this experiment, with this little social experiment with all of us, and there are hundreds of us in that ballroom, and he said, all right, you were mostly college counselors. Think about if you had a time machine and all the things you know about colleges, Which schools would you want to go to? What are your top three schools? And we wrote down You know, if any school you want, you can you could absolutely get in where you want to go to school. So have you ever thought about that tower? Where would you want to go to school? If you had a time machine and unlimited resources? Where would you want to go? Yes? And it's really tricky, but I think that I would want to study abroad. Oh I had Princeton. I'm such a Jersey girl. That's okay, but Princeton, Oh my gosh. So anyway, as it turns out, as we were all shouting out our answers, we even us, even we school counselors, were applying to the same thirty schools. So it really forced us to think about how schools market a whole and just kind of the whole underbelly of why are there some really good colleges that you've never heard of, and how are they going to kind of jockey in and get on our student's list. Yeah, that is so true. And you can even go to any college fair where you can see the different tables and the lines for certain schools, and then the other schools where there's not as much activity, right. Yeah, right. The other schools, like the smaller schools, are the ones who are off the grid a little bit, are giving out like entire size snicker bars or candy bars, whereas the schools like Penn State and Rutgers for US and Michigan you mish, they don't have to give out any mints or anything. It's just a it's like a bank run. They're all at those tables. Yeah, we should do an episode on college fairs. We will, Okay, glad to say we do. We do. So we're bringing it down into kind of four things that we're seeing that influences how they're developing their lists. And the first one we're seeing is family pressure. This is in no particular order, by the way, So family pressure. So parents again terrorist disclaimer, we're not shaming anyone, but isn't it true that we want our kids to be better off than we were? Right? So, and in some cases, what have you seen Tara with just kind of getting a vibe off of that. So there's a few things, and one of those is that the parents are wanting their kids to attend the school that they went to, to the point of where as soon as they're born, they're wearing the onesie that says the certain school right. Guilty, Guilty is charged. My kids had baby blankets that had West Virginia on them. Uh huh, yeah, yeah, and they had the onesies. Right. And then you start early with watching the football games and going to alumni things. Maybe you bring the kids along, maybe some of the other parents also attended. And I don't see anything wrong with that as long as that conversation happens between you and your child when they get to that age where they're starting to think about it more, which could be early high school, could even be late middle school, and making sure that you are clear about how it's okay if you don't want to go there. I think that's my giving them that permission to apply elsewhere. Oh for sure. I have a friend from high school and I'm not going to say her name, but she does listen, and you know who you are. She went to Notre Dame and met her husband there, and she has three kids and the first two not Youre Dame. There's a third one coming up the pike. And my money's on, My money's on Notre Dame. Yeah, so which is fine, which is great, and god, you know what, smart family, West Virginia is not as difficult to get into. So fortunately my kids didn't have that huge unspoken they didn't go to West Virginia. But that's another you know, you as as Tara and I go along as episode, you learn about our kids and what they're doing, and we try to keep it. We try to keep it separate, but little stuff leaks out for sure. Well, as you guys know, I had interviewed my son for one of these episodes, so you know, Albamana is one. But also what I'm seeing, I do see that there is a prestige factor as well, and we want better for our kids, and why not try to get them to go to a more known college or some perceived better known college. It's that it's that prestige factor. I see that also a lot with my families who the parents didn't go to college in this country. So there's also the American dream type, you know, slant to that first generation. And if you don't know, like you know, if you didn't go through the process or if you weren't growing up in this country, there's certainly a different perception and that we could do a whole other episode on GPA and great inflation. Just because your kid gets all a's doesn't mean they can go to Ivy League school. There's so much you know, GPA is is one metric and you could have a higher GPA and I don't even get me started with that. So so family pressure would say would be the number one. Yeah, what else do you see, Tara? As far as what shapes a kid's idea of a list, I think the next thing to talk about would be location. Yeah, and there's several different factors that come into play. Some students want to go far away because they want to get away from their current high school and kind of start fresh and go into you know, that next phase of their life, being able to make new friends and you know, just kind of start new. And I don't see anything wrong with that as well, as long as that's not the only reason you decide to go far away. A good good friend of mine, her daughter wants warm, a warm setting in New Jersey. We have the four seasons, right, Oh, yeah, they're very different. But you know, my one friend, her daughter said she wants to go into Florida. She wants to go somewhere. Really warm and really far away, so as long as those aren't the only deciding factors. And then there's the group of students who want to be close enough because they want to come home on the weekends. They want to go to that like suitcase type of school right where. They're coming home, or even if they have a small break, they can make it home. They get their. Meals, maybe on the weekends, they raid the pantry, they get the laundry done, and then they can reset and go back, you know, Sunday night for the week. So location definitely plays a large factor into the selection, wouldn't you say. Oh for sure. And just some more on the flip side. You mentioned Florida, and I the applications for colleges in these notoriously beautiful weather locations. By the way, it's not that I'm saying Florida is not beautiful because there is a hurricane season and there is like major humidity. Remember we had Santina on last season and she was talking about the humidity and how like what a what a shock it was that she got used to it. She acclimated, but it was a shock. So but those schools they don't want to hear that you're going to them because of the good weather. Right. They'll even have it on their supplemental questions like besides the beautiful location, yeah, right, Like Joey is at Charleston, right, and it says it flat out in the supplemental like besides the beautiful Charleston, what really? You know, what brings you here? So college isn't going to want to hear, you know, get me out of such and such, you know, because I need to be in X, Y and Z. And can we quickly say just if that is one of the thoughts that your child is thinking, you may want to We talked. We touched on this in another episode, and I thought this was really important and something that people don't talk about a lot, which is if they're going to a location that's really beautiful and warm and a destination spot, that you have to have that conversation that with that comes a higher expensive living, higher expense of you know, not only just if they're living off campus that you know, renting that apartment or house, but also just going out right and how expensive it is versus being in a different, you know, location that may not have that touristy completely factor, completely right. So that's the location. So your kid is going to say, get me to this location. I want to go skiing, I want to go to Vermont. Well, you know, UVM is going to want to know what is it about our academic programs and what is it about our community? Not just that, but as you said, living off campus has a different dollar sign and a different dollar range than you know. It is the cost of living, so so true. The other piece of it is is what I'm seeing with my students and my and the clients in private practice is there's a lot kids go through a lot and as I got to clear my throat, go for it. We're real here. We're real here. So are we going to edit it out or not? Maybe we'll say we're not. It's going you guys are going to hear it allergy season in northern New Jersey. So there's a great book called The Anxious Generation. Have you heard of it? Yes, And we did a book study on it in a local school district. So I read it from cover to cover and I even listened to it. And what we're seeing is and this is speaking to a lot of parents, and this is why we want to have you in this kind of safe space. Not to sound cheesy, but we got to be real about our kids. And some of our kids should not be going across the country. Some of our kids should not be going to a school far away on a plane where when it hits the fan and they're having a meltdown for something, or they they you know, have been constantly for three days and they call you, not knowing what to do, and you're freaking out and you just want to jump in your car, but you can't, and what should you do. You really need to think about the emotional behavioral patterns of your child and if you had these things, or your kid is on maybe some anti anxiety meds or antidepressants or whatever, or there's health issues, like your kid has diabetes. You want to be able to hop in a car as a parent and get eyes on them. And that is very real. I worked with the kid a couple of cycles ago who has diabetes, and that was the number one in the conversation, Like the mom was like, I need to make sure I can hop in the car and get over there. God forbid an emergency, and thank god, there hasn't been any emergencies, but he went about two hours away, and that's something that's very real. So honest conversations with our kids at least. Yeah, you don't want it to you don't want certain things to prevent them from trying new experiences, but you also want them to think about it ahead of time. Questions like do you think that you're ready to go this far away from home versus I don't think it's a good idea because you have anxiety, right, So let them just think about it before you know. That becomes a bigger issue when you know they have to transfer out and or you know, whatever. The case may be. But but just put plant the seed. Do you think you're ready yet? Right? And then do you think you're ready? And maybe we should do a little trial as maybe I'm hands off for a week and I'm going to not respond the way I usually do in X, Y and Z. That's great, And I'm talking about I have a one of my boys is four and a half hours away, and there were many times where I literally texted him like I'm coming up, like and then he even he's sassy. He'll text back, are you really coming up? Are you threatening? I'm like, oh, so so listen, I'm walking the walk here so with maintaining the privacy of my own children and I and they're they're good, They're good, typical, wonderful young men. But these are real, These are real factors, moms and dads, So think about location. Some other influences though, which I think is a little more I want to say insidious, is the peer influence. So I worked with a kid just like in this cycle, and I asked her, Hey, have you thought about putting such and such school on your list? And she looked at me and like rolled her eyes. I'm like what, she goes? Oh no, I said, why not. It's a great school. It's like an hour and a half away. It's like great vibe. It's by a train station. You can hop on the train and you can go into the city. You could go this like great school, generous with the financial aid, like checks every box. And she said, well, a girl from last year goes there and she's dumb and I just worked too hard to go to a school where she goes and it's like what And she was as serious as a heart attack. And I had to I listened to it, and I challenged her on it. And we laughed about it, and I just said, Wow, that is really a damn shame that you just threw out this good school because some witch from your high school goes there. Because I could tell you it is an amazing school and here's why. So I want you to think about it, and guess what, I'm gonna tell your parents about it too. So the pure influence of following people or not following people is certainly a huge thread, if not one of the most heavy threads that your kid won't talk about because it's totally freaking irrational, right, and it's it's just based on BS right. It's very frustrating. And with that, I think goes into our next topic, which is social media, because that's where we see a lot of the influence from peers as well as the schools themselves. Right completely, they're there social media. It's brilliant. Oh it's so good. It's so good. Yep, it really is. It's a brand. It's no longer you know, just an institution. It's everything tied up in a neat package that looks perfect. I know. It's like I want to go there, yeah, for sure, And where are kids? The reality is that our kids are spending a lot of time on social media. Yes, there's a lot of time social media for the kids. And we know this. This is not rocket science, and this is not going to make you, you know, pull your car over and focus on what we're saying. But it is true that your kids are not just scrolling, scrolling, but they're using social media for research. Yeah. Right. We had our Baron's books and our Fisk books and all of our books back in the day. If you're a gen xer that has morphed to online presence, which is morphed to kind of a hybrid of like US News and World Report, which I think is a throwing up my mouth a little bit, but that's another episode. The social media part is much more intoxicating, right than looking at a huge book that you could technically knock someone out with exactly, or like stand on to change the light bulb exactly. So it's so much more intoxicating. It's available at your fingertips at any time of the day and just that whole you know, influencer vibe. Yeah, it's happening. We even tell our clients as part of the college planning process, look at your Instagram. Make sure you're not doing stupid stuff on there, right, But you know they have an Insta and a Finsta, right, they have a fake Insta. So their Finsta we don't care about. I sound so stupid saying this, but their Insta. They they should be following. They should be following schools on social media to demonstrate interest. If your kid is thinking about joining the dance team at a college, then your child should be following the dance team at that college on social media because it's a great way to learn that. You know, the vibe, the brand, the expectations, what life looks like. It's It's true. It is a good way to learn all the business clubs you name it, every club, not every club, but most schools who have prolific clubs and student activities are going to have their own Instagram page of that particular club or activity. Yeah, and I think that because of the influence with social media, it really is important if it's financially feasible to get your feet on that campus to kind of not I don't want to say fight back, but you just also need that perspective as well. While the students are in session. Yes, totally, while they're in session and kind of I think about remember mole rats, you know, just kind of hanging out with the mall, watching people like you. Really very similarly, you want to sit on a campus and just be a campus rat and just chill out and separate from your kids. Your kids do it alone. Yep. So yeah, social media is huge. We worked with a client this cycle who reached out to a TikTok influencer creator who attends that school and had questions and actually messaged that person on TikTok and got really good feedback. Yeah, so so like, what, how do you even describe that, Tara, Like, how do like I it is? So it has evolved into a just this digital resource network of real people, real kids, and our kids reaching out to other real kids. I just went to like the dark side because immediately thought, like to catch a predator. Yeah no, right, no, like, ugh, I know, but but it is at their fingertips, right, So we just have to you know again, like have those conversations, right, so they're looking at social media and having the conversation about how it is branded now, right, and that social media literacy and understanding. Okay, yes, you're right, there is a little bit of like a polished look, and it's not entirely maybe the whole picture, so you know, saying let's go visit or let's put you in contact with someone who currently goes there so you can have that real world, real life kind of back and forth, get a little bit. Yeah, and it's a it's a good it is. It is a resource and your kids, you're, whether you know it or not, your kids are doing it. I also see Tara. There are college planners who use current students at like Ivy's and top tier colleges as ways of like funneling clients for college planning purposes. Like I don't want to say any names because again don't want to get sued. I say this a lot in this podcast, but a kid will come on a TikTok channel and say he'll say like, hey, I I just graduated Princeton. I will tell you every single thing I know about how I got this is how I got into Princeton. So and then if you know anything about college admissions, it's like you can't follow someone else's pathway, right, So, especially with a top tier school like that, it's very Yes, there are patterns, for sure, but it's almost like I don't know. I think it's like sometimes I watch these commercial these old remember the old commercials were like wrinkled cream on TV, Like does it really do that? Does it really take away my crow's feet? No, it doesn't. I bought it and it was like two for one and I put it on and it didn't work. Very similarly, it's like, you know, what you see is not necessarily what you get. Do our kids know that at social media? With you know, with the social media. I don't know if there is discriminating, but they're certainly resourceful. Yeah, that which is great, Which is great in some ways because they really can get you know, a closer, closer look in some ways as to what's going on. There are some websites right that you can go and look at that give a more student centered feedback. Yeah, and we'll put those in the show notes. But there are some things that Instagram accounts and college websites that actually are not run by a college. They're not run by you know, somebody trying to make money. Right like Niche College Confidential. Right, And those are really good resources as well because they can help you kind of filter out some of the branded things. I guess right that they're not the school is not sponsoring. And you know what, there's also some other you know, with the algorithms and how the kids are being targeted, right, there's some subtle, not so obvious influences as well, like the sports culture. Right, oh big ra ra yeah, schools, yeah, the white out game, yeah, exactly, yeah right, and Greek life is another one, huge, right. Sure. I was watching the I'm not going to say the schools because I love them all and I don't want anything negative tied to any one particular school. But it was like rush Week, yeah, and they had the sororities do all of their like silly little I don't want it to be diminishing. I wasn't part of Greek life when I was back in the day, so I don't know too much about it. But like they're, you know, the rush week, and I do all of these like team building things and very spirited things, and these dances. They were so talented, yeah, so talented they are. So it was fascinating. And then then my algorithm's like, oh, you might like this one. And then here's another school, another big sellar school, and I'm watching it, and then I'm like why am I watching these sweet little, perfect bodied eighteen year old girls dance synchronized wearing not enough clothing. I'm like, can I get back to my wrinkle cream? But just on a side, I know. I was having a conversation with my mom the other day and she told me that there were sororities back in high school when she was going to high school, and she was a member of one called the Loquations or something like that, which means the talkers. Yes, that's what I would be. And they met once a month and had meetings and talked and I had no idea. How would we know in high school? And they called themselves a sorority. Interesting? Maybe it was a cover to just like get together and hang out. And I don't know, maybe that's interesting. Here's a weird one too, which I don't know how much of this I buy into. There's two strange influences here. The first one is food. And how food can play a role in how students pick their colleges. Now, the reason I am mentioning this is because on one of our college tours. That was one of the biggest focuses of the tour. They kept mentioning all the dining halls and if you want to do this and that, and it went on and on and on and on, and we have variety, and look at this, and we have this, and then they provided a free lunch for us, and it was just. It was probably amazing, right, it's always the best. Ever. It was good, and I just thought, I don't know, when we went to school, it was just just ate whatever. Oh it was and it was hideous. Yeah, it was horrible. It was like the matrix with a slops So it is a subtle thing for some people and just something. I'm not sure that would be the main factor for deciding, but I just thought that was an interesting one. And then the other one which comes up on social media. But also I guess if you're on foot and you're touring the campus, which is the esthetic, right, and then that ties in a little with the location and whatnot, But like, what does the school look like? That's one of the reasons I want to go, because the school has great architecture and it has this, and it has you know, it's a closed campus where all the buildings you know, are tied closely together, and they have beautiful hills and farmland and it's a calm aesthetic or a city like aesthetic. So not saying that that would be the deciding factor, but just another influence or another way that students are thinking about what schools to pick. Yeah, back to your food point, I know that there are so many kids who have food allergies, so that's a big question. Yeah, how do we how does that? Yeah, how does the how does the dining hall mitigate food allergies? One? And then the other one is you know, we're in North Jersey, big melting pot scenario, having a halal where you have food, you have your compliant with with that piece, so that certainly I could see how food is important. I've worked with a lot of Jewish families and there's lists of schools who do it right. Yeah, so it is interesting. But I do think that the kids are really looking at the social media Oh yeah really and also the peer influence. Yeah, you know, they all these kids on may first have to decide where they're going to school, and schools create so much social pressure by having that bulletin board you know where you're going, and then wearing the sweatshirt, and it is so much social pressure that it just inflates everything. So, so parents, just know that all of these are huge factors. They're very real to your kids. And if you're not having conversations about the why why this school, you need to start And as Tara is saying, it needs to be subtle because they will they will box you out. Yes, you could play good cup, bad cop, but you do have to have a hand in their list, of course, especially if you're paying. Yeah, and you know, we've always talked about this in our in season one we mentioned this several times. Our whole academic career or I should say their whole academic career from K through twelve has been scripted for them, right, But now they have choice. Yeah, and the choice is overwhelming so much yeah, so much so yeah so so the fit college fit is a big piece of it. It and I think that having all of the things that we've talked about, all the different influences, we also have to be aware of what's going to work best for our. Kids, right And just know that this list that your child has curated is I don't want to say it's on it's built on quicksand, but it's built on the pressures that we don't realize we're putting on the kids as parents. It's built on social media, it's built on pure influence and typically location. Those are the big four and please have that talk and be honest with your child about the priorities. And Tara talked about fit. What are those priorities that will influence the fit and feel free to cross off some of those schools and add schools at will. But it is very complex. It's a complex mix of the practical and the emotional and as we pointed out, the irrational. So we do wish you the best of luck as you put colleges on and off your list, and just we hope that this episode you understand where these where these schools came from. How your kid got to know the University of X and the College of Why, And please ask the questions and have a little bit of understanding on you know why your kid wants that. If your child doesn't know exactly what they want to study or completely clueless, don't forget there are plenty of resources online that you can use through free through like your school has naveance or score or school links or these these college planning software components. There are personality assessments, career assessments like the Myers Briggs, like we do the Myers Briggs in our practice in academic mentoring, but they're certainly free, a little more diluted version, but they're free just to kind of suggest to have your kid, you know, take a look at it, and it'll also help curate a list aligned to their personality and interests. So we wish you the best of luck, parents, And if you do have questions, you know, feel free to check out season one where we do go into depth on you know, a bun chef topics that come up during the college application process. Right, and our website has some resources. We are Academic MENTORINGLLC dot com and we're easily found. We're easily found. So we hope you find some confidence and energy as you listen to our episode today. And thank you so much for tuning into From Carpool to College. Thank you so much for tuning into today's episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, we'd love for you to be a part of our growing community. Please share and follow our show. For those who want to support us further, join. Our Patreon site. Your support helps us create high quality content and great episodes. Plus our Patreon members get exclusive perks like bonus episodes, early access, and behind this scenes content that we think you're just going to love. And now for some legal stuff. The content of this podcast is for informational and educational entertainment purposes only and is provided as is, with no guarantee if accuracy, completeness, timeliness, or outcomes. I could keep going, but I will spare you, and I will post this entire legal disclaimer on our website www. Dot Academic MENTORINGLLC dot com under podcast Tara and I are so glad you joined us today on from Carpool to College. See you next time. Something like that, Yeah, done's good, Okay, Chris, make that pretty please? Pretty please? Make it pretty please? So are we going to edit it out or not? Maybe we'll say we're not. It's going you guys are going to hear