Testing Sucks But We Have to Talk About It

Welcome to From Carpool to College, a show for parents who are trying to get ahead or just keep their sanity while navigating the college planning landscape. Hey, this is Racy Amadeo Tara Harritz, and today we're going to talk about testing. Tara, what did you compare standardized testing to a colonoscopy? Yeah, so, because it's something that we have to talk about, yep. So we decided collectively as your hosts, that we're only going to give it twenty minutes because we hate it and we understand our audience. You have the whole internet. Okay, you can google all of this and find amazing resources and we'll put those resources on our website, will put them on our Patreon for you college board, all sorts of stuff. But we just want to give you the view from twenty thousand feet really, because we realize that the only experience with standardized testing that you may have is your own. And you're of a certain age and the nineties are over, so we're assuming the nineties, right. You could be a little older, could be the eighties, could be the eighties, but we just want you to leave knowing that standardized testing exists. It is alive, and well, you have options, and there are a couple things you want to know. So I want to start with sharing a phone call I got when I was walking the dog the other day. So our private Practice Academic Mentoring LLC, the calls are forwarded to my personal cell phone because as a small business owner, this is what you gotta do. So I'm walking a dog and I get a phone call and I shouldn't have answered it. I should let it to go to a voicemail because I didn't recognize it, and I'm like, oh, this could be a client or is it? Or is it? So I answered it and it was a potential client. And she asked if we do test prep, and we do not. We used to, but that kind of went sour. So we don't really do that anymore. Because there's a lot of resources for you. We don't. That's not our jam, and a lot of them are free. Oh so many free resources. Yeah yeah, So I said, you know, no, but tell me about your kid. So she told me about her kid and he's a junior and he doesn't really he's kind of like up and down with his grades and plays more Xbox than does homework consistently. And I immediately thought of my own two kids. I'm like, oh, I'm like, I got I knew, and I shared some stories about my own two kids. So I asked, you know, well, what is your what are your goals? What's your end game here? Because frankly, we still live in a test optional age, and depending on where you get your news sources, you may think drastically differently. So there was a New York Times article that said test optionals going away. You know everyone's going to come back to the sat Or Act. But that was also written by some IVY League authors for a certain newspaper. I don't want to get sued, but you're going to read a lot of different things in the news. So here's what you need to know. As of today, there are hundreds of colleges that are happy to take your sat Or ACT scores. So there's two different types of tests here, Act sat toy. Remind me to talk about them later, Yes, and I'll go. I'll do like the coke and PEPSI thing. Oh, it's so boring. And again we're pausing because we hate talking about this and seriously, we don't want to talk more than twenty minutes about it. Because we think it sucks. Okay, which want to be for the record. So there are hundreds of schools, thousands of schools who will take your test or not take your test. There's something called test optional, and colleges will say, hey, if you think your score is reflective of how you perform, then send it to us. But what's happening, folks, is that people are students are sending scores that are only above the average accepted scores for each school. So there's a site, well, there's a little like back curtain way to see what test scores each college accepts and what the range is, like the twenty five percent tile, the fiftieth percent tile, the seventy fifth percent tile. And that's called the common data set. So if you google any school, pick a school. Tear ah, University of Richmond. Okay. So you put in University of Richmond Common data Set in Google and the year for the last admitted class, and it'll be a PDF house somewhere. And it's ugly too. It's an ugly form. It's like definitely a government agency kind of form. Yeah, it's a compliance thing. They have to submit this report. They have to submit like how many applications they received, how many they accepted, how many male, how many female? What the average GPA was with the twenty fifth percentile, with the fiftieth, with the seventieth. It's a compliance thing. So if you look for the common data set, you will see what test scores those applicants have submitted. And that's how you can work backwards to see should I send my test scores or should I not? But the bigger question is when I was on the phone with this lady, it's like, should your kid even go all out? He wanted to take the June SAT, and he wanted to do like a like a warrior boot camp to gear up for it. And when she told me that he didn't even break a thousand on his PSAT, I was like, well, you know, back in the old age, when we were in high school, breaking a thousand was like good, Oh you brook a thousand, Good job. I remember a guy went to high school with we both had the same SAT score. It was like ten thirty or something or ten forty, and he ended up going to Boston College. I did not. Well. He also played football. Okay I did not all right, but you know, breaking one thousand was good now they say ten fifty is the is the fiftieth percentile SAT score. But frankly you're looking at that's like flat in the middle. That's not necessarily a good score. So this kid didn't break a thousand and According to the College Board, the PSAT is a pretty good barometer to see because it's normed with all tenth graders, So all tenth graders take it, and it kind of shows you where you stand, like the whole percent tile thing. And this is like, I'm gonna nerd out a little bit, right because Okay, I took statistics twice. The first time I failed it, and then I took it again and actually liked it the second time. But in my defense, it was the summer I turned twenty one when I failed it. Okay, totally legit. Yeah, So when we talk about percent tiles, think about one hundred people in line, and let's say you're in the seventy fifth percent tile. Think of yourself in that line of one hundred people and your number seventy five. You could look behind you and there's seventy four people who you did better then, but there are seven well whatever, see I'm doing math now, So there's like twenty four people in front of you who did better than you, right, okay, out of one hundred people. So the PSAT given in ten, tenth grade and eleventh grade. But the PSAT ten that will show a percentile based you know, comparing your precious cargo with the precious cargo across the country and sometimes even the world to see how they do. And the score is a little it's not out of sixteen hundred like the SAT. But the according to the College Board, when a student really goes hard and goes on the CON's Academy which is linked to it for free tutoring resources, which amazing idea. I'll say it again. The College Board partnered with a Khan Academy and if you type in your credentials from the PSAT workbook, the con Academy will generate a free personalized prescriptive practice plan for your kid based on all the stuff that they got wrong. So there's there's your nugget. If you tune out, now at least you got that again, but we still have like thirteen minutes of torture. So so the PSA, like your kid is taking it tenth grade and the math sequence is algebra ninth grade, tenth grade geometry, eleventh grade PRECALC, twelfth grade calc or maybe geometry PRECALC calque statistics. In any event, your kid's not gonna do well as well if they have algebra in ninth grade. The kids who had algebra in middle school are gonna kick your kids. But in math on the sat or act because they have more knowledge, they've learned more. They're advanced in math. Yeah, so like what. Where they've even just been exposed to a little bit more right now. They don't have to even master it, but just to be able to understand the basics right totally. And make a good guess. So the College Board says, typically if you get PSAT score, you're maybe gonna go up two hundred points. So parents need to take the PSAT seriously when that rolls around. Make sure you're kids are prepared for that, and don't let them tell you, oh, it's just a practice test. Yeah, it is a practice test. However, it's a really good indication of how your kid's going to do on the essay. Twice they take a twice they do they take it in tenth and eleventh. The tenth grade one is the national Merit scholarship qualifying scholarships and National Merit Qualifying scholarship test. So if you do super well, then you can be eligible to have some big fast scholarships if you score like in the top two percent. Crazy stuff like that. So so take a PSAT seriously. Understand that the math sequence is very important because, as Tara said, it's what you're exposed to. Also, they could take good guesses. Just to give you some ideas about test scores. I do a lot of work with early college and colleges want to know is this kid going to graduate in four years? And if they're behind in math or in writing, then they're gonna have to start out with a non credit or remedial class. So they could use standardized tests like the Acuplacer, which is a college test given to high school graduates to assess where they are in their in their math and in their writing. So standardized tests aren't really going away. The benchmark SAT scores for being college ready are ish about about five sixty in math and five ninety ish in in the verbal section. So I'm giving these scores out some of you. It means not a darn thing, and that's fine, but these are things like Tarris colonoscopy. We gotta do it, we gotta we gotta talk about it. So testing is there. Testing is optional. Testing is not optional in some schools, like the State Schools of Florida. Testing is not optional in like University of Tennessee. Some schools require testing, and that's that there's nothing, you know, nothing you could do about it. So it's important to take that PSAT seriously as a benchmark so you get a good indication of what kind of interventions your kid needs or if they're just going to pivot in a different direction. You probably will need some resources on how to know what schools are tests optional. So there are different online resources that you can go to, like fair test dot org is one of them, and they're kind of a watchdog right organization, and they cover everything K through twelve and then hire it. So it's the test that maybe you're middle schoolers taking as well. But there's a lot on there and it's pretty user friendly. I wouldn't say that you need to be someone who's in the field of education to kind of interpret it. There's a lot on there though, so I don't think you need all of it, but there's a section of Higher ED and you can go to you can find out which schools are test optional. You can find out the SAT, how it's scored, what the you know, the point values are, and different things, how much time should be spent on each particular question. So there's a lot of information, but it, like I said, it's user friendly and accurate because there's so. Much out there. There's so much, and especially with the SAT, some of it is, you know, there because they're trying to you know, drum up some business or whatever. And I think that this particular site is pretty helpful. Yeah, I like. I like thefair test dot Org. That's like it, as Tara said, it's like it's a grassroots watchdog organization and they keep that list pretty current of schools who are test optional. In some cases, some programs may not be test optional, so you can have a you could have a test optional school. But let's say your kid wants to go into nursing, and with nursing, chemistry comes really fast. So with chemistry comes advanced algebra, right, and so they're instead of just gleaning the transcript to see, okay, what level did this candidate this applicant? You know, when did they take chemistry at what level and what was their grade? They can also look to see if they have that math backbone, because that you know, like I said, the chemistry comes fast. Same with some like seven year med programs where they're just not test optional programs that typically will terminate with a standardized test like nursing. Very often they will want to look at right, well, look at it because they want to see if you're a. Good test taker, right, And that's what I was just thinking back because we both had to take the standardized practice test in order to get our license license for teaching. So yeah, they're the exit program as well. The exit ticket, I should. Say, yeah, the exit ticket. Yeah, do they still have the practice Yeah, the practice I believe that. I had to take one for counseling too, and I had to take it for Massachusetts and New Jersey because I well, I went to UMAs. Oh okay, okay, I just said yea like a bad flashback. Yeah, all the other pieces too, as I'm having trauma flashbacks from my own testing. Thanks for bringing that up, Dara, and welcome. So we as parents are well, my gosh, we just want we want to do right by our kids and we also know that no standardized test could ever measure how awesome our kids are. But we also have to understand that these tests are not They're not necessarily going away. And I'm not just talking about the SAT or the ACT. Like we just we finished up testing season in our in our respective public schools, and did any of your kids out of standardized testing? Can you do that? You can? You can. There's a small there's a small amount that did opt out, and you can opt out for certain sections. Even if you want to do. The English language arts portion, you can do that and then opt out of the math or vice versa, right, or you can do both, you know what I mean saying, So there's yeah. And I kind of have some strong opinions about that, Okay, yea, because I get that in school, like we can't standardized tests are not ever going to be a measure of the whole package. But standardized tests, especially those achievement tests in school, yeah, they a lot of times and it's only a slice, it's only one day. I get it. Yeah, But as an educator, especially as a school counselor, I'm not a psychic. I don't know what foundational knowledge a student has and when parents opt out, it's one less data point for me to help make a placement for your kids. I agree, and I think that it's not I don't think everyone should be forced to take it. I think that there are some students who are very. Right anxious, right, right. We don't want it to become something where it causes, you know, some severe issues, right. But I do think that by opting out your child right, then later down the road, when you have the essayt or you have other tests, right, who's to say that, you know, if you have a fifth grader now, fourth grader now, and then years later it might not be test optional anymore. It might be required, right for everyone, or if it's not required for college admissions, there may be. There's a driver's test, a driver's exact test, right, that's standardized as well, so kind of just standardized testing is one of those necessary evils in many respects. And you parents are going to see it a lot. You see it an achievement test. You're going to see it in college admissions, starting with that PSAT and then going to the SAT or there's the ACT. Now, the ACT and SAT are like coke and PEPSI now, my gen X parents hopefully get that reference, because when I tell it to the kids, they're like, my parents don't let me drink soda. Of course not of course not so right. So for so it is, they're two different formulas, They're two different exams. One is an achievement test. What have I learned? It's much more transparent. That's the ACT. It's the American College Test. And then there's the SAT, which is the Scholastic Aptitude Test. How well might this student do in college based on these types of questions, And there's much more skill based, skill based, more on AC ACT, knowledge based. ACT. SAT is more critical thinking, critical thinking, yeah, more analysis. Yeah right, So my two boys, although, like I say this whole time, there's differentness the fingers on my hand, I had one kid who definitely did better on the ACT and the other one did great on the essays. Yeah, so, you know what I was just thinking of a little you know, going back further into the conversation. But I was wondering when did Test optional start because you would think that it was a result of the pandemic, but it was actually way before that. Yeah, it was, it was way before. Interesting, I know, because it's you know it is a slice. Yeah, and also kids socioeconomically, it's the kids who have the resources to hire the tutors, right, kids who have the luxury of not having to have a part time job in high school. Right. So there are a lot of factors, right, And there was a lot of bias and a lot of the questions. It's a hot topic. It is. It's a hot, steamy, stinky topic that we are approaching twenty minutes talking about. Yeah, we are oh parents, you have a lot of resources online about testing, but we hope that the takeaways are standardized. Testing is there in any in all different forms, pay attention to the PSAT and as Tara said that the fair test dot org is a great place to start because you could even start looking at generating a college list if your kid is college bound, if that's your pathway, tons of pathways, then look at fair test or think about going to a community college to start with, and you don't need an SAT or act. Yeah, so fair test dot org and then the con Academy. Right, that's it. Two beautiful nuggets and a stinky pile of growth. This is bad visual with a cold. We started out with. It, well, then I started thinking about you know, how that people always talk about the prep work. For the colons gets true? Is that how we felt about the prep work for this episode? Maybe? Okay, I did? I did? Yeah, So we're glad this episode is over, folks, and good luck. Put the scuba gear on as you go the hell out of all these topics we talked about, and we will say a prayer for you. That's right. I'm Tracy Amadeo, Tara Harritz. Thanks for joining us. Thank you so much for tuning into today's episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, we'd love for you to be a part of our growing community. Please share and follow our show. For those who want to support us further, join our Patreon site here. Support helps us create high quality content and great episodes. Plus, our Patreon members get exclusive perks like bonus episodes, early access, and behind the scenes content that we think you're just going to love. And now for some legal stuff. The content of this podcast is for informational and educational entertainment purposes only, and it's provided as is with no guarantee if accuracy, completeness, timeliness, or outcomes. I could keep going, but I will spare you and I will post this entire legal disclaimer on our website www. Dot Academic MENTORINGLLC dot com. Under podcast, Tara and I are so glad you joined us today on from Carpool to College. See you next time. Something like that. Yeah, done's good. Okay, Chris, make that pretty? Please? Pretty please make it pretty please. Do your check microphone check, microphone check,