Summer Programs & Fear of Missing Out with special guest, Kevin Flatierre

Welcome to From Carpool to College, a show for parents who are trying to keep their sanity while navigating the college planning landscape. Welcome to From Carpool to College. I am Tracy Amadeo, Tara Harritz, and we have a very special guest today. Good morning. My name is Kevin Flotier. Kevin is a member of the Fantastic Private Practice Academic Mentoring LLC, which we talk about because that's who we are, and Kevin is also a school counselor and brings in a wealth of knowledge press. We're happy that you're here today. What are we going to talk about today, Tara? We are going to talk about fear of missing out FOMO. Yes, FOMO, we all have it because we all go on social media. But FOMO in the college planning world can really drive a parent crazy, and it's. An epidemic, right, wouldn't you say at this point totally? Yeah, totally. I went ahead on Facebook and started fussing with my algorithm. So it went from like anti aging creams to college planning. So Facebook now thinks that I have younger children than I do, which was the plan all along, my evil plan and my algorithm changed and now I'm being targeted with these amazing summer programs for my children. Now, Kevin and I as school counselors, this is nothing new to us. So today we're going to spend some time talking about these very commercial pay to play situations that may cause someone a little fomo. So Tara, Tara is looking at a video right now that I sent her. Kevin, you have yours? Well, do you have yours? Heaven? All right? Why don't you pull your video up? I did a screen record putting my glasses on my middle aged eyes. One of the commercials that came up, these paid targeted advertisements on my Facebook is advertising the most amazing thing for my fake child. So I screen recorded it and sent it to Kevin and Tara. We're going to narrate it to you what we see. We're not going to tell you who it is because we don't want to get sued, right, and this looks like an amazing thing, so we're not even trash talking it. I kind of want to. I would love to do this if I were to have a time machine. We talk a lot about having a time machine, having our Dolorean that gets set back to a different age and we just hit the one point twenty one jiggowats that we need, and we go back to whatever year. I would absolutely want to do these. My little inter nerd, my little secret inter nerd would be just doing cartwheels with this. So so let's pull up that video, Tara. What I want you to do is to narrate what you're seeing on the screen. Okay, So, as I'm looking at this, first of all, the production level is unreal. It's definitely like Hollywood level. There's all kinds of interesting camera angles and the lighting is superb. Everything's placed perfectly. There's drone shots, there's handhelds, there's dollies. All kinds of different types of cameras are used for sure on this, and the level of production is just beyond so everybody's happy. In the video, there's lots of interesting landscapes that we see students walking up and through pristine absolutely college. Do you see this? Do you see this? College? So, Kevin and I as like the our whole lifestyle is college counseling because we're school counselors. It's one of many things we do with school counselors. But did you recognize any of the colleges in there, Kevin, No, I did not so this old one right here, it's Stanford. Go ahead. So it looks beautiful, absolutely beautiful, very very almost not to sound odd with saying this, but it's very romanticized, right, So it's very enticing, and the people in the video are engaged. The lighting is great and everything is just showing, you know, perfect college experience. Yeah, movie like, very movie like. And I'm going to hit pause on yours tire. Okay, So right now, there's a bunch of students who were like in a robotics club and they're like launching something. Are like, whoao, we just sent out this thing in the air, and they're like timing it. Then. So then there's a group and there's like a little intermission and there's a scene from Washington, DC. Okay, okay, now we're like talking coast to coast here because I was just in California and now I'm at the Jefferson Memorial, just saying, okay, so walking up the steps to the Jefferson Memorial, these kids, these inquisitive intellectuals, Oh Princeton. Okay, hang on, what else do we have here? Oh, there's a girl taking a picture of it, and she's looking to see if she captured a good shot. Now they're in a lecture hall. Oh okay, they're in a lecture hall. The un luck too big, right, not a big lecture hall. Very state of the art. It's state of the art, and every different scene is going to give you a slice, an opportunity for you parent to put your kid in that scene. So they're going to go through a whole bunch of different things. We have a broadcaster, we have so we have the art kid, we have the medical kid. Oh there's two medical beds facing each other. Now we're in it looks like a cathedral some sort. Oh we're back in DC. So boy, I want a piece of that, that's for sure. If I was a here, doesn't I don't you say? Now, Kevin, you have kids too. How old are your kids? Two and one? There you go, so three and one. So we have a little time. We have a little time for you. We have some time to build those scholarships. It's great. I could start showing them and say, look look what you can do. Look what you could do. Yes, you could start that. You could take them in their strollers there. So as a school counselor have you had experiences where students participated in these activities. I think I've had one student actually participate. I've had several come to my office really excited with the fancy envelope and their stamps on it, and there's like gold leaf everything on it. And they come in and they say, I got this. What is this? And it's really tough. I mean when you read through everything, it looks amazing. It's everything you'll be doing. It's fancy lettering and invitations to different events. But what they don't realize at the end then is that price tack at the bottom. So they come in and they think I was nominated, I was elected for this, and they're so excited. But then we get to the bottom and we're like, but yes, but look at this. Now, look at this cost of thirty five hundred four thousand dollars for a week, which is a lot of money. It's a lot of money. And I feel like I'm always crushing their dreams whenever I get to that point, because they're so they're so excited that they were nominated and selected for this. Sure, and they get nominated through interestingly different avenues. I have a story. When I first started my career as a school counselor, I was working in a school that was sary low socioeconomic district, and I had a lot of kids on free and reduced lunch. I had a snack drawer, one of those like I always had crackers and whatever food. So kids would come into my office all the time. Yeah, I was like the I guess it was like that witch in the woods that had the cottage made of candy. What was that Hunssel and Gretel. Yes, I was the Hunsle and Gretel witch enticing children into my office. But it worked, so they would come in for food and whatnot. And I had this young boy, he was probably a freshman and definitely on free and reduced lunch, which means you know, he I think the family was on social services, living with extended family members. And he said, miss miss look look he came in with the envelope right, the same thing, and it was the return address was Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, DC. Okay, so very special. I've also seen once. I actually have one in my hand, and the return address is Cambridge, Massachusetts. There we go, there we go. We know who's who's in Cambridge hard and so right away, the credibility is amazing. And Kevin, as you were staying the envelope, it's beautiful, terror you said earlier, reminded you of a wedding invitation. Yeah, for sure, Yeah, absolutely, it's it's really I'd done so well and just looking at it from a different perspective, you could see how much money goes into the promotion of these items and the promotion or the creation of the videos. It's just there's a lot that goes into it. Yeah. So he came in and he said, and I had never seen it before. I was new, I was new to the profession. I just left the classroom. I didn't know these little nuanced things. And I said, oh, let me take a look at this. And I know the kid, and I'm like, how did you get this? And it turned out after some investigating, the brand new social studies teacher received something in her mailbox from this company who asked nominate your outstanding enthusiastic, intellectually curious students. For some it's like a leadership scholarship Washington, d C. She probably didn't read the whole thing, but what's the harmon nominating so what did she do. She went down and thought about her most vulnerable kids and wrote their names and addresses and then basically sold out the You know, she broke the law probably, but all these kids now were receiving this beautiful invitation. This child told me in his office, it doesn't matter how much it costs, because his grandmother has some money saved. He'll work, he has a job, He's going to save money. It was like, so I said, okay, let me call them and see what the deal is. Maybe maybe there is a scholarship right, so I called, and there are scholarship opera. First I said, how does one get selected? Oh, they are nominated. Okay, is there any GPA criteria? Well, we like to have over a three point zero we like to have Okay. Well, then I thought, I don't think this kid has it. I don't know what this kid's GPA is. And then I said, you know what if do you have any wigle room? Oh, of course you if you endorse them, we endorse them. Okay. So now I'm getting like, okay, so it's not a selective. Okay, how much? What's the bottom line? And I think it was a little over three thousand dollars for that one, and that's like over ten years ago. So then I'm like, oh my god, this poor kid. I said, listen, I have a kid here who's on And again I still didn't really put it together that this is a very much a pain to play situation, that this is a business. That not that it's not a meaningful, amazing experience. I'm sure it is, but is it what this family thinks it is? Is it the ticket to a fancy pants school? Is this experience? If this kid comes up with the money and has the experience, does it guarantee that this kid is going to get a full scholarship to a college or a top tier college. I don't know. That's what they were thinking, that this was this huge opportunity when really it's a it's kind of like an educational travel agency. Really, and not that it's wrong or right, but it's just an experience. It's just an educational experience. So when I asked about scholarships, they said, oh, yes, absolutely, you can start fundraising. He can get a part time job, you know, you could do a car wash and raise money. I'm thinking, oh, okay, And then I was connecting the dots and then I got I was so, I was so pissed off. I was so pissed off because the school counselors were so protective teachers, right, we're all, we're so we are that second family for kids, in some cases were the first family. And I just got this predatorial vibe. And since then, every time I get one of those shiny envelopes, I'm just like, I get triggered. I get triggered, as gen Z would say, I'm trigger warning. So now that my social media thinks I'm a little younger than I am and thinks that my kids are a little bit younger, I went ahead and nominated my husband for one of these camps. I didn't tell them I say camp because it is like a camp. It's like a week long camp. So I'm not going to say which one it is. Because my husband is an attorney and he's reminding me to say what I wrote it down. He says, make sure you say in my opinion. So in my opinion, I will say that I'm really sus when it comes to these programs. Because my husband got a letter in the mail, beautiful envelope thick like this was better than our wedding invitation. It really was terror like, feel this paper. I know it's good, right, and it's from the return address is some person's name who I won't say, with the credentials. What are the credentials? Oh, PhD, PhD, fancy okay, So it has his name, and then underneath it says, your mom asked us to send this aw kind of weird but okay. So I guess that just signals to the kid that it's okay to open. I don't know. So the first piece of paper in this gigantic packet is the certificate of nomination for the award. It says, certificate of nomination for award. Let it be known that my husband was nominated for this blah blah blah Award of Excellence. This is not an invitation for the fancy pants field trip. This is an award of excellent and it says for outstanding academic achievement, Leadership potential. Off he's got leadership, but they don't know. So then it just goes on and has the person's name with the PhD credentials and it has the records from Tara you see it, Boston, Boston. Okay, So again we're kind of pairing that with Harvard am I t very very academia. So then the rest of the the rest of the materials are going to be little pamphlets. And I'm trying to do it away from the microphone, so producer Chris doesn't get mad at me because I don't want to blow up his ear drums. But they have the acceptance of nomination to my husband and his parents, some payment options. So this particular program, which by the way, they'll tell you it's highly selective, but considering I just considering my husband just got the award. Clearly, there's no not that he's some dumbass, but like he's a smart guy, but he's not you know, he's not a student. So this got right through the gates, as will all of these They're not selective. These are businesses and this is going to cost us there. It is tuition, an overnight program, full payment. I'm not going to say the exact amount because my husband is an attorney and I don't want to connect the dots too much here, but we're looking out over two thousand dollars. But there are payment plans for you all. So if you think about that, you're spending two thousand dollars for an amazing experience. But the point is like, please don't think that that is going to be that singular element that's going to get your cans to college. No, I think it's concerning that you are the one that nominated. So any parent out there can do the same exact thing, nominate their child. Yeah, have it written on the envelope, which I that's interesting. But and then that's it. I mean, your husband's not your child, but if it was your if he was your child, there's a joke. There, but I'm not saying because eventually he will be listening to this. Okay, you're pretty biased there, right, It's not like you're, Wow, this student in my class is doing amazing. They're so well deserving. This is Hey, my son could do this, my daughter can do this. My precious cargo, my precious cargo genius. Absolutely. Yeah. Yes, and that's on the cheaper end too for many of them. Yes, I took a screenshot of another line. I'm really it's going to get obnoxious with my social media feed, but I did take a screenshot of another one that that I don't I guess as a parent, My children, my fake children who are looking to go to college, are are nominated to And it was almost six thousand dollars. I mean granted it was like ten days, but it was whereas here it is fifty Well, I'm not going to say fifty three hundred dollars. And and you know, are these programs worthy? Are they? Yes? I mean they're they're absolutely worthy. Terror And I, through academic mentoring, had a client who went to one, and when I saw that on her resume, I thought, oh, tell me about this. I didn't want to say to like the parent, Oh dude, you didn't have to spend this much money. Oh my god. And just a side note, you know, we we are Academic Mentoring LLC dot com, so we do help people with the college process. But we're also we're public employees, we're school counselors, we're teachers. We we are not predatorial. We're very much educators and counselors first, just trying to keep our lights on and do right by people. So we will call we will try to help families save money in these cases. So I loved and saw that it was this this entity. In my opinion, it was this entity, and it was these these these programs are never hosted at like a regional state school. Never. It's always Duke, Stanford, Princeton, even Harvard, but it won't necessarily. They'll rent out space at a Harvard dorm, but it's not affiliated with Harvard. Now, oh, Kevin, you see these a lot, and I want you to think about it. About pre college programs at Harvard, pre college programs at Duke. Pre those are actually through the university. But these are just renting space. Much like when I ran a field hockey camp. If I were to do an overnight, I would rent space at somewhere that had accommodations like a dorm. So they're very smart. They're very smart, as Howry points it out, with the production. So our client I saw I went to a healthcare one with Duke, so I didn't say I believe it or not. I put myself on mute, sat my hands, I didn't say anything. I put the poker face on and I just said, oh, tell me how that went. She's like, oh, it's awesome. A couple of days I explored healthcare. A couple days I explored pre law, A couple days I explored I don't know what else, different realms because you'll see they have all different realms because they want to you know, like Oprah is every woman, these programs want to hit every kid. So she said it was then she realized when she was suturing a baby doll and doing like phlebotomy stuff, which is terrifying to know that, like a sixteen year old is practicing phlebotomy on a cabbage patch kid or whatever the hell they do. But that's steal the deal for her. That she wanted to go into nursing, which is great, and would she have had that experience otherwise don't know. Again, don't have the DeLorean to go back in time. We don't know. We're not reading Tea leaves here. So it did give her that opportunity. But I didn't ask how much they paid because I felt so bad. I was like, oh, okay, but it was meaningful. Yes, it was meaningful. So the question was how to put that on a college application, because you are establishing that you have money and resources. So I encouraged her to not write the name of the place because college admissions counselors can see that too, and showing privilege, which they didn't have privilege they had. It cost the family money. They made it work. They didn't know, but I had her write it in a way that was not It was very disguised. We talked about the experience and not necessarily like fancy pens leadership in Duke University, it wasn't. We totally downplayed that, which might be opposite of what parents might think when your kid and you sign your kid up for something like that, you'd want to say, my kid went to such and such a Duke. It's like, oh, well, they use the Duke dorms just like the soccer camp did. But so so that's we're kind of addressing today. But there are other ways to get that experience, so you don't have to pay five thousand dollars. Yeah, I mean, if you have it and you want to get them out of the house for a week over the summer, that might be the way to go. And it does help them to see like if it is something that they would want to explore, better to find that out sooner rather than later, which we know can always change anyway. But I think it's important to see that if you can't, if that's not in your finances and you don't have that, you know, the luxury of doing something like that that there are other ways that can build a student's just you know, academic portfolio and get them to a point where they feel comfortable and confident when they're applying to schools. There's so many other ways that you can, you know, just foster that, and some of them are completely free. We like free, yeah, we do. And maybe it's a combination of things. The internships, some summer jobs, right, some sort of I don't want to say passion project, but some sort of project that they're engaged in that shows interest, right, and leadership without it costing thousands and thousands of dollars. Would you say, absolutely makes sense. You were talking earlier when we were having our first cups of coffee. We run on coffee, So we were talking earlier upstairs about your daughter's experience with the future healthcare leaders of whatever the organization is. So your kids they have access to free programs at school, So what are they doing in their school community to engage to show not just like to show their intellectual curiosity, but to feed their intellectual curiosity. We don't want to think about our kids' activities as terminal destinations on a college application, because that's frankly, it's bullshit. You want to encourage your kids to be authentic, not fake it, and see how they plug in, because if they're just bsing their way just for the sake of an application, they're going to think college sucks because it's going to be repeat So figure out what they what they like, and if they don't, that's okay too. Every kid has their own timeline, right, But you were talking about your daughter did practice suitres on a banana, okay? And she met with other kids in her school, other students who also are interested in healthcare field, and was able to have a little bit of a different experience with that particular high school teacher in the classroom. And you know what the other thing is. It can help nurture their interests, but it can also kind of weed things out. Right in this day of you know, information overload, they can kind of get a better sense maybe apart from the algorithms and everything else, they can get a sense of what they may not want to do. So that to me is just as valuable, if not more, to try to figure those things out before. Oh totally. That reminds me of like when my husband and I are like, where do you want to go out to eat, I don't know what do you want to? Where do you want to go? Well, I know what I don't want. I don't want Mexican Okay, I don't want sushi. Okay. So okay, I don't want healthcare. Okay. I'm not really into computer programming. Okay, it's the same. It's very human, it's very human authentic. So yeah, tons of other ways to get experience. But as Harris, if you got the money and you want to get rid of your kid for a week, bless your heart, go for it. Great way to go. They won't be peeing in the woods outside, that's for sure. But the other thing to think about, too is when you have, you know, over the summer, right, you have that opportunity to do a bunch of different, you know, explorations, So you can go to the internships, you can do some sort of summer class whatever it may be. When you do weed those things out that maybe they decide they don't want to do in the long run, even investing a little bit of money during those programs, not the really big ones, but the smaller, you know, tuition fees or whatever they may be. Over the summer might actually help in the long run to save money, because then they'll have that opportunity to you know, narrow down their search and have a little bit more of a say and know what they want to do when they're applying to the different schools. Oh completely, and I'm going to put Kevin on the spot. Kevin, I know you get this. I get this all the time as a school counselor when we ask a student what they're thinking about studying, what do you think you want to major in? And you have this really cool kid and they're kind of artsy, creative outside the box, and they say, oh, yeah, I love like crime scene investigations and forensic science. Right, yeah, I want to study like CSI, you know, And so tell me some of your experiences with that, because we talk about twer's talking about ruling things out and but we're also wanting to try things so pre college programs. So I met kid that just came into your office, I'll be a kid ready, Or here's I have all right, let me just fix my nose rings and my septum piercings and jet black hair. And I'm so cool and creative. I have all the guts that terracy Amdeo never had as a sixteen year old because that was too much of a conformist. And I come in and I say, mister Kevin, I want to be I want to study forensic science. And the only problem is I really don't like math and chemistry, but I love like the whole thing. So I'm going to apply to such and such school because it has the best forensic science program. Advise me, do you watch CSI too? I do? I love CSI? Yes, right, yeah, that's that's been a popular one recently, forensic science. And one of the first things I'll say to the student is if you're not strong in math and chemistry and all that, it's a problem. That's what you're going to be doing. What do you mean I can look through a microscope, sure so. Can I, but I'm not a forensic scientist for a reason. Right, it's and I think the everything looks great from the outside, but that real world, day to day, what you'd be doing in that field is not what you're seeing, not what your experience has been. So it's a tough conversation, isn't It's horrible. It's the worst one ever because we don't ever want to tell our kids that, oh God, that they're not smart enough. I just whispered it because I feel bad. But that's not the issue. The issue is figuring out what our talents are, what our interests are. But certainly a forensic science degree is STEM. It's a STEM degree. And we have so many students who end up starting in forensic science and then ending in sociology, anthropology, psychology, sociology because it's really the human element of the relationships and that pathology and investigating human behavior, not necessarily the hard science behind it. So we have those conversations but and put Kevin on the spot again talking about those pre college programs so unlike the program that my husband. I'm looking for my war again. So I had it on the fridge. He's like, take that down. There. It is a certificate of nomination for award. Yeah, I'm gonna put it back up on the fridge. Maybe I'll put it in like his birthday. We are proud. It's come a long way. And the funny thing is he's an attorney and this one is for the medical one, and and he's he is so squeamish, I can't even talk about blood or injuries like my boys. So I'm divorced and I'm remarried. So my husband has three boys. I have two boys from my first marriage, and he has Doug has suffered through a many sporting events watching my kids, and my kids are always getting injured and getting like catching a baseball in the face and you know, twisted an ankle the wrong way, like ankle shouldn't go that way. Doug will literally pass out. Like he's that guy who will just like even if he looks at a band, he's like so. So I just think it's ironic that I nominated him for the medical one, but I was going somewhere with this, So so this kind of pro if Doug was interested in studying medicine, it would be maybe a good chance for him to get a feel for it. But there are legit college programs over the summer, and could you talk about that a little bit. I think it's called pre college. Yeah, so, I mean, I think the big benefit with them is they're affiliated with that college, so you're meeting with professors from that college, You're seeing those classrooms, those labs, whatever the program might be, it's it's really pre college. You're you're there you're testing it out. It's a test drive for that school and the programs they have in the professors and every other resource that school has, not like before when you're mentioning renting out the dorms or the classrooms or whatever the case may be. So it's a great test drive for that school and also that major, whatever. Field or program it is right, And in some cases it'll offer three college credits, which we'll talk more about dual enrollment. We will have several episodes on dual enrollment. That's actually my area of special specialization. But in many cases you can pay the money. Maybe it's five hundred dollars, maybe it's a thousand dollars. I don't know, but it'll at least yield some credits, and if you're considering that school, you're getting a flavor for what it feels like to live there. Now. Certainly it's a little Truman Show esque. It's a little fake because it's not you're not with you know, you are in a summer program. It is with people your age. It's not a stratification, and it's probably adjunct professors. It's very much aligned. Colleges have to keep their lights on, so they want to bait you and contribute. And I will say this. I wrote it down so I don't forget it. Please remember well, in my opinion, I'll be happy. No one single element will get you into college or a highly reflective college. So just because you go to Fancy Pants Ivy Shmivy University pre college will not give you extra credit on your application because you went there. Okay, so it doesn't. So no matter you know, it's what you take away from the experience. It's not the brand affiliation, it's what you learned. You can go to fancy Pants IVY for the summer and be a bump on a log and learn nothing, or you can go to fancy Pants Ivy pre summer program and it changes your life. And it's something that you write about in your essay, or something you write about in your supplemental or something you can speak to an elevator, pitch to an admissions counselor so the product itself is not going to give you that one up, but it is your experience with it that will how it transforms you and how it adds to you. So just to recap looking through the lens of a parent who has a junior in high school. Right now, you can safely say that if you want to send your child away to one of these programs, that you can kind of look through and make sure that it is directly affiliated with the college. And that is a much better option than to just pick up the mail that's coming through and just select one that sounds good or looks nice or whatever exactly exactly. And they again, I'm just this package. I can't keep my hands off of it because it's so pretty, and there's all these different options here. There's even a brochure that has headshots of distinguished physicians, and there's even Nobel Prize winners listed one, two, three, four, five, six seven. At least look old. These almost look like mass cards for people who died. These are pretty bad. I mean, it's really I'm going to hell in any event. Oh god they have Yeah, I can't. I'm gonna get suit if I go through all of this. But in my opinion, in your opinion, in my opinion, the way this is laid out, if I didn't know any better, I would think this would give my kid advantage by being around all these amazing people. I'm sure they're awesome. These are definitely not their These headshots are definitely not on their match dot com. I'll tell you that much. But but saying that, yes, Tara, to your point, it's really take a look at these programs. Know that there's a difference between what Kevin was saying about the pre college summer programs and that there's a difference between what's nominated air quotes. Can't see this, there's air quotes right now. I'm like a matt fully motivational speaker from SNL nominated. There are differences and buyer beware. Yeah, and I was just going to say, remember so years ago, our parents were always the ones that were being targeted, right, But now the students are being targeted right and not just through the mail but social media. Right. So it's just one more thing, you know, keep that in mind that they're looking up whatever their interests are, whether it's academic or athletic or a hobby, and then right away they're getting information sent to them about these summer programs or you know, open houses or anything along those lines. So remember it's not just coming to you, it's also coming to them in different ways. Exactly exactly. Any other last words, we want to conclude with because I think we are good to go, Kevin, I any, Yeah, I mean, I. Guess I know we've spoke about it briefly, but I have had a student do a similar program, a medical program in DC, and she her experience was great. So I think it's important to know, Like we've said before, there are benefits, and this particular student, there was not a financial burden on their family, so it was a great opportunity. She did go on to pursue a career in the medical field. She went to Rutgers, not to not Rutgers, but it was something that she definitely would have gotten into without this program. So it's whatever makes sense for you and your family. But it's just a warning, so true, so true. Well, thank you so much for being our special guest today. Ken really appreciate it. Yes, so, and Kevin, and thank you for being part of Academic Mentoring LLC. Definitely one of our one of our VIP associates. We appreciate all you do for our clients. And that concludes our episode this week of Buyer. Beware of those summer programs and we are here to support you in any way we can. We are academic MENTORINGLLC dot com and we'll see you next time. Thank you, Please follow us, subscribe to us, like us, and love us wherever you listen to us. By subscribing to our podcast, you are helping everyone involved, and don't forget to share with others. And consider supporting us on Patreon because, as you may know, Tara and I are both public school employees and these podcasts are not free to produce. But our goal is to provide access to our information to everyone without spending thousands of dollars before your kid even gets to college. So consider supporting us on Patreon at the spectator level, the JV or varsity level, we will give you extra resources and all our love and support. We also want to have special thanks to our producer, Chris Rywalt. Without him, you would be hearing all sorts of terrible bloopers and outtakes. And now for some legal stuff. The content of this podcast is for informational and educational entertainment purposes only and is provided as is, with no guarantee of accuracy, completeness, timeliness, or outcomes. I could keep going, but I will spare you and I will post this entire legal disclaimer on our website www. Dot Academic MENTORINGLLC dot com. Under podcast, Tara and I are so glad you joined us today on from Carpool to College. See you next time. Something like that. Yeah, done's good. Okay, Chris, make that pretty? Please? Pretty please make it pretty please,