Hands On, Hands Off

Welcome to From Carpool to College, a show for parents who are trying to keep their sanity while navigating the college planning landscape. Oh hi, thanks for joining us today on from Carpool to College. What do we have today? Tara, what are you doing over there? Are you're breaking your bracelet? I'm taking it off so I don't make noise. I always make noise on every recording. It's hard for such glamorous women, so we have to be careful. So today we have an episode that we like to call hands on, hands Off, And this is design for parents who have kids in high school, ninth grade, tenth grade, especially eleventh grade, maybe twelfth grade. You're over the hump. But the issue is, as parents, how much do you really jump in to college planning? So we we kind of cover a lot. Tara and I are both educators. Tara, tell us what you do for a living. I am a teacher and English teacher, and I've been for over twenty two years. That's strange because you're only twenty five. Yes, so amazing, I now prodigy. Yes you had good college planning. I did. So. Tara and I used to teach together. Actually, I used to be a teacher as well. I was a science teacher for a handful of years, but lately my last seventeen years. Oh gosh right. So I as a teacher for ten years, taught science, then I switched over to school counseling and college and career planning for the last seventeen years. And we are both parents, and we're both professional consultants. So as good public school teachers, we have a side hustle that we love and helps keep the lights on and we could follow our passions that way. So here we are in our podcast talking about when the hell to jump in, when to jump out when it comes to college planning. Tara has some information for us today. I think you had Oh you had a letter. I did have a letter. I did have a letter, but I'll paraphrase it for you because. This was a listener letter. Yes, very long letter, get to the point type of thing was It wasn't it wasn't happening, but anyway, So we had someone write in who was concerned about how much to help their child apply to college and the whole process. How much do they jump in and how much do they step back? Okay, so Tara and I are both parents, as we said, and this is something that a lot of parents grapple with. The woman it's you, isn't it? Maybe it is. I knew it. I knew it. I'm like, how the hell did a parent find us? We just started this podcast, and of course, parents listen, you can absolutely access us. We are on Patreon. We have a consulting side gig called Academic Mentoring LLC. You could reach us through there. But I was like, who the hell reached out to us already in our our very first episode, it was actually Tara. Tara has two kids. How old are your little gremlins? Sixteen and eleven? Okay? I have two boys who are in college. I have a twenty one year old How the heck did that happen? And a nineteen year old soon to be twenty. So do you've gone through it? Oh? I've gone through it, and I'm just getting my feet wet. Oh you're in the thick of it. Well, okay, in the thick of a sixteen year old. You're in the thick of it. Yeah, you're in the thick of it. Okay, So did you do any research online? Too? Uh? Because that's what we do parents, right, We go right to the web, and we think, Okay, I'm just going to use AI to figure this out, and I'm going to go online, and there are so many resources. Online, so many to the point of where it's almost you know, it becomes overwhelming, it's counterproductive, and there's just so much you don't know what is accurate, what is believable. You know, it's it's really challenging. And then once you search up one thing, then you're immediately targeted because of that lovely algorithm, so constantly getting bombarded with messages and where we should be and just making the process seem even more overwhelming. Oh it is. And I going to tell you, as a professional school counselor, even even being a professional school counselor and a private independent consultant, it's still a bear working with your kids because they're kids, right, and they're going through it, and they're in that developmental stage, their psychosocial development where they're pushing away, they want to be independent. They oh my gosh, they're like they're all over the place. We love them, and then you know, they're different kids from one day to the next. So and here we are at the crossroads and we have to make this decision. Yeah, it's tricky, it's very very tricky. And you know, just to talk a little bit about now versus when we were applying for it, right, the process back then was much different, less information. Overload, and. I feel like that might not have been the worst thing, whereas now there's so much and just being able to filter through it. And then on top of that, your children, if they are freshman, sophomores, juniors, most likely have access to social media and different platforms, right, so they're also being targeted in a way that's new and different from how we were. We may have had a college fair, we may have had a pamphlet come home, right, but or a booklet or whatever, but nothing to the extent of what we have now. Oh yeah, it's totally flooded. The mailboxes always full, the you know, the news feed, any kind of reels or anything. They're targeted, targeted. So that's tricky because you're you're being targeted, your child's being targeted. And some of it's great, it's wonderful, but there's a large portion of it that's just you know, it's overwhelming, oh. So ulming, and a lot of it, I mean, it's hard to tell if you're not in it. But there's a lot of propaganda too, yes, so the sources of the material out there typically will have a link to someone who's ready to take thousand dollars, ten thousand dollars for their book or something. Right, there's always there's always something. So we hope to go through some things to give you some practical free advice, free resources, and we'll kind of go through it step by step. But the first thing, parents, you need to know, and you know this already well, first of all, and don't worry about the whole bad mom bad dad sash that we all wear. We're all vulnerable, we all make, we all say stupid things to our kids. So we have to give ourselves some grace here because Tara, as you were saying, the world is completely different now than it was when we were back at school. And I even have some international friends who didn't go to college in this country and they come to me for some consulting business with their kids because it's such a different system as well. So it's almost like when I get a client who wants to go study, you know it abroad, you know, in Ireland or in England, and it's like, Okay, it's a bit foreign with clearly different sets of rules. So parents, first of all, give yourself some grace, and you know that your kids are as different as the fingers on your hand. Okay, so there's no right answer here. We're not going to tell you jump in, now, jump out. You know you're not hokey pokeying this, parents, But we will give you a resource to start with. If you go on our website, there's a master calendar under resources. I put this together. I frankensteined it. I took the guts of all these other calendars I found online to just give parents a huge, gigantic checklist of things that you need to be thinking about each year. Ninth grade, tenth grade, eleventh grade, and even twelfth grade. There's always something going on. By the way, Can I just say also that your kid doesn't necessarily have to go to college. Can we just shake that whole thing off too, because last I checked, my play has a beautiful house a couple of towns away. I don't want to say the name of it. We're in Jersey, so it's a very it's a very small it's a very small state. We all know each other. But my plumber has a beautiful house in one beautiful nook of this great garden state. And he also has a beautiful shorehouse and has a beautiful fishing boat that he has pictures of online. Right, and you know, trade trade program. So please don't think, don't get sucked into the hype that your kid has to go to college to make it. The world is different. Get these ideas out of your head. Stop making up things in your head and responding to them. I'm so good at that. But I'm working. I'm working. Yeah. I think as parents we do that though yeatually we do. We do. And also Tracy just wanted to say, the master calendar or any master checklist, what effort is that you do as you're going through this journey with your kid. You have to read and know. And think carefully about your kid, your child. Because I know. People who if they gave if they went over this master calendar or list or whatever it may be, that in itself may be really really great and so helpful because it kind of like will alleviate some of the anxiety, it kind of demystifies some things. But in another hand, you could give that to someone else, and that may be too much for them all at once. Thinking in more in terms of the kids. Right, So the calendar or the checklist or whatever it is you're using for especially for you know, ninth grade, tenth grade, keep that as something a resource for you, and then you can also give that to you can go through a piece by piece with your kid instead of one big, overwhelming type of thing. Exactly. And our objective is we we hear this all the time time. If I knew then what I know now, parents say this to us all the time. If I only knew then what I know now, I would have blah blah blah. So using our master calendar as a launch pad. Look, you know, pay attention to what time of what season it is in high school and who you're you know, who are who the supports, how your kid is doing. I could tell you I have two boys, Joey and Alex. You'll hear a lot about them, and again, they are completely different. They don't even look alike. They're adorable. I love them very much. I think they're both single. If I do, I do. I really want them to have partners in their lives. But that's another episode. And that's when I put on my bad mom Sash, But they're just lovely, lovely young men and they have they had completely different high school experiences both that's like both well adjusted and had friends, but completely different high school experiences. And they're completely two different colleges. If Joey went to Alex's college, he would be miserable. If Alex went to Joey's college, he would be a lost puppy. So, and you know, we have plenty of time to talk about those gremlins. And they'll even come on the show at some point. If I bribe them enough and give them enough Chick fil A, I think they will do anything for me. So so, parents, we're telling you this so you can really understand you're not the only one who has kids who are as different as the fingers on your hand. So I said that too many times, but it's true. I can't think of another metaphor without another cup of coffee. And really, if you think about it, Tracy, this is like the first time where you have and your child. I know this is this might sound silly, but this is the first time where there's so much decision making going on in terms of their education. Right, So from this point, from now you know, up until this point, they've it's been scripted for them, right, and now they are the ones that have, you know, the opportunity to make all those decision And I don't know their maturity levels, you know, vary in terms of what they're capable of, but I think that's where the pressure lies. It's just in the fact that up until this point, pre K, first grade, second grade, third grade, unless you were deciding to go to a private school or whatever, everything has kind of just fallen into place up until this point. So now that pressure is on. There's lots of decisions to be made. And it's a matter of how much decision making happens from the kids versus the parents, and that delicate balance. Oh for sure. When I was just as you were saying that, I was thinking about a colleague I had at a former school where we were school counselors and this woman they're like five counselors on staff, and this woman was the counselor who had the most experienced She was a couple of years over her expiration date. That's so mean to say, but it's true. One day, they'll say. So. True. Maybe right now, not for a while, No, No, but she's definitely past her expiration date. And she was so adamant about parents do too much these days back in my day dot dot and she compared this this generation with her generation, which I think she was baby boomer generation. For the record, Tarat and I are Gen X. Just in case you're kind of get a visual and orienting yourself to who you're listening to. But this counselor would say, I hate when parents do this for the kids. This is up. If a kid can't do their own work, then they shouldn't be going to college. And it was like it was a little harsh, and she's not wrong about parents doing too much, but also like high school students after twenty ten, after the inception of the iPhone, kids' brains are different. They don't don't have it's a different thing. It is, and we have to we talked about we opened up with having grace for ourselves. We also have to have grace for our kids because our kids have different timelines. And I'm saying this thinking about my youngest son too, because he needed a lot more help and ass kicking then with slippers. I put slippers on before I kicked him in the air, asked just for the record, and I will keep the profanities down to a minimum. But Patreon subscribers, I cannot say the same thing. You will get less edited content, but saying that you're going to get a lot of opinions when you ask for them, and just beware, beware. She was very harsh and I didn't subscribe to that. If a kid can't do this him or herself, then they're not ready for college. But don't you think that's like just the role of a parent ever since you when you first had a baby, even before you had a baby, you're getting advice from everyone. Everybody's an expert. Everybody has their their real strong opinions about parenting, right, So it's not new in that sense, but it just seems like it kind of maybe died down for a while once they were in those like elementary and early high school years, and now it's ramped up. In case you forgot, we're going to bring it all back to you. Yeah, exactly right. There are people who claim to know more than you do and have their best opinions. Oh my gosh, back to therapy. Yeah yeah, And we have to mention the you know, these are a group of kids who also have that little COVID scar, right, oh. The COVID scar, Like, hey, you just completely diminished it. The COVID scars, the little one, the little one where the little band aid, the one where the kids didn't learn algebra. And now even Harvard had to create a non credit remedial algebra class for their incoming freshmen this year. Right, that COVID Yeah that one. Yeah, okay, right, so we have that too. So yeah, so we are here for you. So fortunately for you, we're gonna break it down into I don't know, you know, we're teachers, so what did we come up with? An acronym? An acronym, a mnemonic and we're gonna call it slam. We didn't really invent this. We borrow this from all different sources. So, I mean, we're geniuses, but we're not. You know, well, we're creative geniuses as well. But a lot of the material that we talk about is we have so many different resources and we try to pull the resources that don't have hidden agendas and filter that for you, right, because parents, we know you're vulnerable. You're listening to this podcast, so clearly you care, Clearly you want to know more information. So we feel responsible in providing that for you in a non bullshitty way. So we came up with slam s L A M. So we're gonna break it down for you. As you're thinking about how am I gonna how do I help my kids for college, think about it in these different realms. So we're going to start out with social slam s Social. So when your kid is thinking about college, let's talk about their social life in college. Let's talk about their social life now, and let's talk about social influences. Okay, So as they make their way through high school, we see who they are as you know, they're trying to figure out their friend groups and their interests and you know, all along those lines and those friends, some of them will start the college process a little bit earlier in terms of looking or in terms of just gathering information, and maybe it's coming to them from their social media accounts. But they're doing a lot of talking, right, a lot of talking. So we have influence from their social groups. So the parents have you know, the kids have their influence, and then the parents right standing on the sideline, we were comparing and maybe just talking about, oh, did you look at any colleges yet if I had, you know, a dollar for every time someone asked me that, oh. Where are you looking? Where did she look? Where did he look? You know, it's it makes you It kind of makes you feel a little on edge, or it could, oh it does. Right on top of that, we have the common app, right that the students will register in high school, right, they register in high school. Oh yeah, we have time to talk about if our parents, these poor parents listening right now, if we start talking about the common App, they're going to drive off the rest rold. Okay, true, But there is a there is a reason for mentioning that, and that is once their account is set up, then they start getting information and messages and notifications through that as well. Yes and no, okay, so that's also the college board. Okay, right, So once you start the process digitally through any platform, you your kid now is receiving the marketing information from everybody. Yes, so you are getting a digital yeah, a digital tsunami. Yes, yes, right, very right. Okay, And again, just to go back, when we were applying to colleges, we weren't walking around with the device, right, We didn't have a device at all times, So there's information coming to them. And when once these students show interest in a certain college, they might get targeted a little bit more. And college life looks very different coming through the lens of social media versus say, actually walking onto a college campus. So it's very romanticized. Huge. There's even documentaries and there's reality shows that that you know, showcase things like that. So there's there's a ton of influencing happening. Oh for sure. And I was just talking to Joey yesterday on the phone. Joey is my twenty one year old He is at the College of Charleston. And for this podcast, I was assembly and a bunch of college banners penance. For this, I made this cute little backdrop for us in our little studio, and I found a South Carolina game Cox Towel. So I visited over two hundred colleges across the country. I love it. It's my jam. I pretend that I have a kid going to the school. I talked to students like lucky me, I'm living the I'm living the dream. I really am. I can't wait to retire. God that I could do this full time and be amazing. But saying that I found this towel that said Carolina Game Cox. So I took a picture of it and I texted it to Joey and I said, do you want this? And right away legit? I turned my phone off, but I wish I could read it. Legit. He said, OMG, I just got chills, Like what now. My son is at the College of Charleston and it's about two hours south of the University of South Carolina the game Cox and he says, do you know what that is? And I said, it's probably like a rally towel. And then he sends me this video of the rally towel dance that the kids at USC do and it was to this like really upbeat techie song. I think it's on American Pie. I don't want to start singing it because I don't want our listeners to track off the road, but it's I'll have to play it, you know, I'll put it in a bonus content. And after I saw that video, Tara, I wanted to go to South Carolina. I wanted to be a part of that crowd. I don't give a crap what they study or how accomplished their professors are. I want to shake that rally towel and dance and behalf in the bag with cute guys and my college gear. Yeah, on some stands of a football game, I totally wanted to go right and I got it. I was like wow this and I am how old? And I was so emotionally influenced by this video clip. Right, So imagine a younger brain who is you know, who just doesn't have all of those filters yet and not being able to see through it righte that media literacy part of it, right, and being able to understand like, oh, some of this is you know a little propaganda whatever. So yeah, so it is very. Tricky and it's very influential, and you know that kind of puts that pressure on the student, on the parent. So it's good to just know that it's good to know, like, Okay, this is going on, so let's be aware of this. I maybe have a conversation about it so that way your child knows and that you're aware of it. That'll kind of, you know, just help a little bit in terms of decision making, right. And just understand that your kid is going to attach their identity to their college choice. So the person that they want to be when they find that person on social media, they will latch onto it. Yeah, you know, the College of Huba whatever. Yeah, and they even if it's shown as a good old time, then that's that's gonna be. Or whatever their jam is, or maybe their jam is in a laboratory, maybe their jam is like with the white lab coat and beautiful thick glasses like the ones that Terror's wearing right now. But they will find that and it will become an identity construct, which is we talked earlier about things we make up in our minds, and you're responding to the kids are doing that, and if you don't step in, parents, you're going to let them go that way and not let them in a good way like our friend Mel Robbins, but let them theory, but you're gonna let them get caught up in the propaganda and hype. So you know, just be beware of that. So that's our s, the social, the social, and we want to focus on. Let's move on to the l location and logistics. So what as a family, what do you want in a college? Where is it located? Do you want to hop on a plane? Do you want to be a two hour radius? Do you want to stay home and commute. These are all the conversations you need to have with your kid. I love love maps. I'm a map geek. Like I go to an old bookstore, like a used bookstore. My husband, Doug will go into the used books. I find the maps. And I love When I talk college planning with my students and my clients, I talk about look, I will show them like, Okay, so we're in Jersey. So if you drive four hours north, you're in Boston. If you drive six hours west, you're in Pittsburgh. If you drive four hours south through Washington, d C. Another hour, Ye're in Richmond. And then you know, so like, these are the things. I have a kid in Charleston that's an eleven hour drive or a two hour and three hundred and eighty dollars plane ride. So these are all considerations. These are the conversations you can have today. Now, I will guarantee you, Tara, that every kid that we pull, not every kid. I'm gonna say, I don't know seven out of ten kids for any state. Insert any state, because we know this is not just Jersey, but we're we're ecocentric in Jersey. So I'm gonna say Jersey kids. Jersey kids are like, get me out of Jersey. I want to go to Penn State. I want to go to Virginia Tech. I want to go to Boston College. I want to get the hell out of Jersey and wherever you're listening, that is a very common phenomenon, if you will, and that's also a part of their developmental psychology is leaving the nest. They just want to get the hell out, Like do you want to go across the country. Some do, and that's fine, but just no, that's not necessarily about the college. It's more about your kids saying, get me the hell out. I want to be independent. So that is normal, and our advice is also to consider like logistics, so Ella's location and logistics, think about how you're going to get there, how much money that's going to cost, and have they been out of the house yet, have they gone asleep boy camp, There's an adjustment period, so huge considerations. And definitely a good idea to maybe do those a trip or too well in advance of even applying, so you can just have them experience what that really feels like. Absolutely absolutely. The second part of the l it's not just about logistics. It's location logistics, but it's also about the application. Now Tara talked about that earlier. Didn't want to scare you. I want to like break them in gently because it's a big monster. It is, okay. So it's called the common app and it's there's a lot of components to it. We're gonna have a whole separate episode on breaking down the Common app. We will dissect it like a frog and we will put it on the table and take out all its parts and talk to you about it. It's not a big mystery, but it does take some time. So logistics. Looking at that Master calendar parents, the application pops live for students to actually apply in August. Some schools you can apply as early as a year before. Some schools you can apply in like July, but typically it's August first, and your application is due typically November first, November fifteenth for early action, which we have again lots of them. We don't want you to drive off the cliff, but you want to be aware of timelines. Senior year November first, November fifteenth, December first. When I work with students, I like to have everything done by November first. There are regular deadlines that go into January the senior year. But you need to be aware of parents of this. And again, look at the master calendar on our website. Just print it out and stick it on a boltin board somewhere just to keep it on your radar screen. But please keep your finger on the pulse of those deadlines. Your kids need help with that. They need help managing those deadlines. They also have a full courseload of classes as well. And as Tarah said earlier, it's not like when we were growing up. Do you remember your senior year, Tara? It was nice, right, Were you done at like noon? It was nice? Yeah, with the real classes for sure. Yeah, Sam, I would go home, eat like I was eighteen years old, yeah, or seventeen, and watch Bob Ross on Channel thirteen, and then go back for field hockey or softball practice, depending on the season. It was amazing. And now these kids are in school till three o'clock, my students during the day. We put them in college early. Most of my seniors are at a community college like what what, which is amazing, but certainly not the same when we were in school, for sure, So I digress. Pay attention to those logistics. Now we're up to the a academics. So not all colleges are the same, and we want to make sure that our kid is not Oh god, I'm just going to say, because it's our podcast, Okay, your kid. You don't want your kid to be the smartest or the dumbest in each of the schools. You want them to be just right. You want them to be challenged, but you don't want them to be drowning. So there are schools. In admissions, the schools will give you a hint as to the academic rigor what the expectations are. And there are schools that are different. Absolutely, there are some bachelor's degrees that are easier to get. There's different majors that are easier to get than others. For example, I was a psychology major back in the day the Terjectors. I went to a school called West Virginia University, which is another episode because how did a Jersey girl end up at West Virginia. No regrets, okay, no regrets. No student loans either, very little. I know. That's again we have lots to talk about parents. So you see I digress now and now I'm like, what was I talking about somebot academics. So you don't want your kid to go from very easy high school getting easy a's, going through the motions and all of a sudden hitting a wall freshman year that, oh my gosh, they have to write a research paper. Colleges are all over the map with the levels of support they offer students, the class sizes. You really need to take an honest look at what your kid is doing in high school. Do you see your kids study right now? Right? I didn't see my kids study, and they they were telling me they did their homework on the bus. Were you freaking kidding me? You did your homework on the bus? And they did what? Okay, So both of my kids had huge adjustments academically, and they went to a great high school, but they were not fully prepared for the demands of some of the classes they took in college, for sure. So take a really honest look at what your kid is doing, and just know just because they're getting a's. And this is another episode we got to talk about, Yeah, just because they're getting a's doesn't mean that they're oh god, I'm not going to say smart because it sounds so mean, but that they are gifted that they're so so beyond the scope of the classroom that everything is easy for them. Grading scales are very different as well. And I get a lot of clients who will come to me with, well, my kid has a four point two. It's like, oh, well, a four point zero is an A, right, So four point two is a nice press pretty pretty good, right. But then when you look at the the research of the high school, you'll see that, well, that kid has a four point two, but the highest they can get is a five point six, and the average GPA is a three point eight. So if you're looking at a bell curve and the average kid right in the middle is getting a three point eight, your four point two is not little Albert Einstein that you're thinking about, right, So it gives parents a false impression of the academic abilities of your kid. So I see that a lot. I really do. And so that's academics. And then one second, sorry to interrupt, just to go back to the academic So when you're talking about your your child and you know their want, their interests, what they want to do, what they might be wanting to accomplish when they're in college majors, all of that it's hard to ask them, Okay, you know, what do you want to do when you grow up? Right? That's a terrible question in some regards. But but this is this is relatively new to me. You do need to know if you want to get into certain programs. Some of them are those direct admissions, right, So you can't say, well, I'm not sure, and then later transfer into certain programs, right like nursing. Yep. So that's tricky too. And that goes back to the whole thing about what does your child want to accomplish when they're in college and what do they you know, when after they graduate, where do they see themselves? And although in the academic sense in high school it's pretty scripted for them, right, it's going back to making all those decisions again. And that's a lot to put on a kid. That's a lot. They're still kids, I know, I know, but it is good to just. Be aware, like, okay, if certain programs do require them to make those decisions when they apply. Yeah, so if you are a parent of a junior, that's not much time, No. There's not. And how would you know if your kid wants to be a nurse? How would you know that you to make sure that you had a extra like an anatomy and physiology class on that transcript or that's somewhere you had some shadowing experience in medicine to prove that you wanted to do that. Like, good luck with that. I know there's so much to know. Also with the academics, I'm glad you brought us back to that before we talk about the m With academics, there's a component and I'm pretty sure I made this up, like in a good way. I should copyright it. I've been using this for years. It's the term academic fitness. Oh, I love it because we hear the words were habits and contrientius like as teachers, right, we hear this all the time. But when I switched over to become a school counselor, I could look at final grades and not know the struggles that got to that final grade. So when your kid applies to college, they're going to get a transcript and only the final grade for the course is on the transcript, right, So but parents know it could be a crazy storm. Every marking period you get everyone four weeks, Tara, you have to progress report. What is it now for? For like so you teach English and there's four marking periods. Yeah, so you have to close out your grade book. Yeah, every but then halfway through, what do you have to do progress reports? Okay? And what does that mean? So that means you're looking at their you know, academic fitness from that? Wow? Right? So how often are they handing in their homework? Plus it's all live grades as well, which they can see. And yeah, I am so glad I got out of the classroom. I left the classroom just as they were piloting the online grade system. Oh, bless your heart, Tara, I do it. And parents, by the way, we also we are the benefactors of Tara's strife of making sure the grades are always up to date. Because what do we do, parents, We check the online grade portal. I am so guilty. My oldest one, not so much. Ye, my younger one. I was on that grade portal every week to see what he owed, how many easieros there were? What's going on? And of course you'd push back, like, no, Mom's fine, I handed it in lies. So academic fitness is a function of your kid's ability to produce in a timely manner at a certain quality, Right, exactly. So it's kind of that, it's it's kind of a metric of those functions, and it's I wish we could put a grade on it, because I don't think a kid's report card grade actually measures that. Yeah, it doesn't. It's like how much crap can they get done by the finish line. But when it comes to how your kid's going to perform in college, it's about the fitness and start paying attention parents, and how much you have to go on onto the online grading portal to see what your kids are up to, because in college there is none you don't have access to it, and there are a lot less grade events to make that final grade. Yeah right, so, oh my gosh. I always joke with my high school parents about the final grade in high school and in middle school, it's like you can have a C at mid marketing period and then a miracle happens and you end up as an A. That's right, right, Yeah, so because the teacher lets them know, hey, you're at a C, which is like a gentleman's f these days, it is it is there's great inflation. Yeah, another episode, Well, yeah about that for sure, Maybe Patreon, we should talk about that Yeah, that's great. We don't want to lose our job. No, no, no, So that is premium content right there, But it is very true. My son's principal at his school, his opening remarks, he always mentions how when we were growing up, how we did not have have online grades. And they are a little bit of a disservice to the kids because there's that No, they don't have that opportunity to figure out that struggle on their own because the parents will often intercept and will figure out a plan for them and are on top of them instead of the panic that ensues when they've got to figure it out on their own. And that growth is huge when the parent doesn't step in, right. So, and you know, middle school and even elementary school, those are your times to figure all that out and you can fail a little. And you know it's hard to do that when you're in college and high school. Well it's easy to do actually, yeah. And then they fail out. Yeah, and then you're out. Yeah, you're out thirty grand yeah so but yeah, yeah, and it happens. It happens all the time. The national graduation rate for this country, for the average national graduation rate for students who start college after high school, actually getting their bachelor's degree is only sixty two percent over six years. Over six years, six years. I know, there's a Tommy Boy joke in there. Yeah, six years. So most kids are taking more than four years to get a bachelor's degree, right, and only sixty two percent are actually getting the degree. Wow, what the what? What the hell is happening. We are so grateful to be doing this podcast with you parents, because there's it's like, I'm not going to curse in the non Patreon. It is disturbing. Yeah, it is disturbing what families are entering into as we send our kids to college without having made educated decisions. Right. Yeah. Yeah, So it's good to, you know, just take off those blinders and kind of get as much as you can before you make those decisions, because that's really unsettling those numbers. I know, I know, I know. Other episodes, So let's go to the m the last, because we talked we're slam, we are social location logistics academics. We're just wrapping up, and the last is money, which is actually is a good segue. We're talking about the failure rates of students. Well, we talk at graduation rate. But really, if you look at it the failure rate, how are you going to pay for college? Parents? What kind of what kind of monthly student loans will you be taking? Will your kid be taking out? These are discussions that need to take place. Now. I'm not a financial expert by any stretch, and neither is Tara. It's not our wheelhouse and we're fine with that, but we will tell you that you do you as part of your hands on responsibilities is to have a conversation with your kid about tuition. Look to see how much college will cost you. Colleges have something called a net price calculator on their websites that you could put in your information your kids grades, potential SAT scores, ACT scores, and they'll give you a ballpark of how much merit money they can award you, which is your that's like the traditional scholarship, like, oh I got a scholarship to SLUCH and SLUCH that is your reward money merit scholarship and need based money, need based scholarship, which is the Hey, this is how much money I make. Can you cut me a break? Can you give me a discount? And they will most schools will, and believe it or not. Private schools have a lot more leverage. Private independent colleges have a lot more leverage with giving money awarded to families than state schools because they're rules are a little more, they have a little more flexibility. But state schools tend to be cheaper, lower tuition money, and private schools tend to be higher price tag. Am I telling you to ignore the price tag? Yes? And no, I'm saying look at it, but understand, if you're looking at a private school, you will get more financial aid most likely than in a public school. But the public school is going to have a you know, the price tag is going to be lower anyway, So definitely have that conversation. This has come up a few times. If a student is applying to you know, with a certain major in mind, is there sometimes more awarded to those students versus other majors? Like in other words, if I wanted to go into engineering, are there more opportunities to get into that program and more money awarded just based on the major versus someone going into for education. It depends, depends, It really depends. So for STEM, the science, Technology, engineering and math, or we call it STEAM now science Technology, Arts, engineering and math, if you're a non traditional student in that realm, typically there may be some more money in there for you. So non traditional means that you are not I should know this. I should know this because I'm on a grant committee from my day job, and that's I do the data crunching for the non traditional students in different programs if there's a certain percentage. But if you are underrepresented in any industry, you're considered non traditional or non treads as they say in grant LINGO. So if you are a woman of color going into engineering, you would be a non traditional. If you are a man going into nursing, you're non traditional. So in those cases, yes, but really it's all over the place, and it fluctuates from year to year, right, depending on completely, like everything with the process. Yeah, yes, it depends on you know, if it's an election year, yeah, right, exactly, if it's the year after an election year, like everything. Yes, there's variables on everything, Okay, for sure, great question. So there are tons of scholarships, they'll tell you, they'll say, and there are, and there's great websites for different scholarship applications, and there's all different types of scholarships and grants. Grants you don't have to pay back. We love that, but but realistically you can't rely on them. You can't rely really on outside scholarships. They're as Tarry you were saying, they vary from year to year, and they're they're really hard to get. So as you have that money conversation, if your kid says, well, I'm going to get scholarships, I really can't put that in ink on that plan. You could write it maybe in a very light pencil, and it's great to aspire to that, but it's something I would not think of it just like a little bonus at the end, exactly. I don't rely Okay, Yeah, something I see families do and I love. And again, another episode we'll talk about it is when students in high school take AP classes and they get college credit for it if they get a four or a five on the test and also take dual enrollment credits, which means they're taking a class in high school over forty weeks with those four marking periods. But it's also partnered that curriculum is delivered by and ordained if you will, professor who happens to be your kid's teacher as well. They typically they have to hold a master's degree and the college has to approve them. They don't get paid extra money by the way, which I think is I'm not going to curse. I don't think that's right. But it's called dual enrollment or dual credit classes. My kids were able to take like Intro to Business at their high school and it delivered three credits in the course, and it transferred to both of their colleges. So Joey ended up leaving high school with like twelve or fifteen college credits. Fifteen. He's actually graduating a year early, not yet. I'm sorry, he screwed up one semester a semester early. We were shooting for three years because you know, no money true over here. Yeah, but and let me tell you, Joey's awesome, but he is not like he is not like AP dude where he's taking every single class AP. He's a humanities guy. But I think you had like a B plus GPA. So I just don't want you to think that you can't do this unless your kid is some prodigy like you could pull this off, especially dual credit. And then Alex, thank god, he graduated high school and he's like my B minus student. Yeah, he graduated high school with eighteen college credits. That's amazing. So and which is good because he screwed the pooch when he went up to college, so we had that nice little cushion. So you never know what your kid's gonna do. But certainly parents today when we're talking about hands on, hands off, look at the master calendar, pay attention to academics. Money. The money piece is huge, and you can save a significant amount of money by paying for one of those dual credit classes. I think it was like three hundred dollars. Yeah. And another thing with those classes sometimes they're labeled differently. So if you don't see it in the course catalog of your high school or in the handbook, reach out to the guidance counselor and really, you know, ask about it, because sometimes in some of the high schools in certain counties in New Jersey, even they don't go by that term dual enrollment, dual credit. They label it as something else. I can't remember with that happ in my head, but it's really important if you reach out to them. There should be some sort of program and they usually partner with certain schools. Certain schools. Usually it's like a local regional college or I know Syracuse has a really good program. But yeah, and they're all general education, all like one hundred and two hundred level courses like college courses, so they're very accessible for our kids, and unlike college. The curriculum was delivered over forty weeks over an entire school year, but if they were in college, it would be zip. That's really quick production, delivered over fifteen or sixteen weeks over half a year in a semester. So it's a great way to bolster your kids academic fitness by taking college content, but at a slower rate. I can't talk enough about it. I'm actually I've actually presented. Did I present for? What were we just talking about? The NACAC, the National Association for College Admissions Counselors. I was a presenter on this one year and on behalf of like high school counselors and how much we value that opportunity because I was trying to appeal to more colleges to offer it to us, because I feel like dual enrollment is a great form of scholarship and financial aid if you ask me for sure. So good stuff good stuff. That's right, Oh, Terra, we covered so much today we did. This was a long one, but you know what, it's good to kind of walk away from this just having a little kind of better of an understanding and wherever you are, if you're driving to work, or you're on the treadmill, whatever it may be, cleaning your house whatever, that's what we do every Saturday morning. Yes, but you know you'll walk away just feeling a little bit more confident about the whole and overall, I think you need to everybody needs to kind of circle back to the idea of that. You know, you want to try to give your child the opportunity to be the leader of this process and carefully watch and see, Okay, they need a little bit more help with this. I'm going to step in as much as I need to without going over the top, because I think that's where the biggest risk is. So and then kind of just enjoy it as much you can because they can totally read your vibe on it as well, and you don't want them thinking going off to college thinking oh my goodness, leaving with all of this pressure or whatever. They will have it, but it is something that you know, you want to make it as least stressful as possible. Yes, absolutely, well, thank you, Tara. We are getting our episode of hands on, Hands Off. We're glad that you joined us today. For our Patreon users, we're going to be adding some bonus content on this because I have a story about a student who's in my lofese just last week. So again, thank you so much for joining us on from Carpool to College. I am Tracy Amadeo Tara Hartz, and we are from Academic MENTORINGLLC dot com. Thanks for joining us. Please follow us, subscribe to us, like us, and love us wherever you listen to us. By subscribing to our podcast, you are helping everyone involved, and don't forget to share with others. And consider supporting us on Patreon because, as you may know, Tara and I are both public school employees and these podcasts are not free to produce. But our goal is to provide access to our information to everyone without spending thousands of dollars before your kid even gets to college. So consider supporting us on Patreon at the spectator level the JV or varsity level, we will give you extra resources and all our love and support. We also want to have special thanks to our producer, Chris Rywalt. Without him, you would be hearing all sorts of terrible bloopers and outtakes. And now for some legal stuff. The content of this podcast is for informational and educational entertainment purposes only, and it's provided as is, with no guarantee of accuracy, completeness, timeliness, or outcomes. I could keep going, but I will spare you, and I will post this entire legal disclaimer on our website www. Dot Academic MENTORINGLLC dot com under podcast. Tara and I are so glad you joined us today on from Carpool to College. See you next time. Something like that. Yeah, done's good, Okay, Chris, make that pretty please? Pretty please? Make it pretty please,