Families Don’t Experience Departments. They Experience Your School. - Your Morning Boost: A School Leadership Podcast

Let's face it, schools love departments.

We have admissions, communications, student services, activities, counseling, administration.

I mean, we separate the work because it helps us organize the school.

But families don't experience any of those things separately.

They experience us.

And sometimes the gaps between our systems become part of their experience too.

This is your morning boost recorded in the Forward Ed Network studios, a weekly spark for educators and school leaders ready to lead, teach, and live with greater intention.

This is your morning boost.

Today I'm talking with Ian Nenke about what happens when we stop looking at school through our organizational chart and start looking at it through the eyes of our families.

Ian, before we get rolling, can you tell our listeners a little bit about who you are and what it is that you do?

Thanks, Adam.

Great to be here.

By the way, I love the title of your podcast.

It's very positive.

Oh, thanks.

Appreciate you being on here today.

Yeah.

So look, I'm a father of four kids.

I had kids pretty late in life.

I've got a 2 year old, 5 year old, 7 year old and 9 year old.

And they're all boys.

Yeah, they're pretty boisterous.

I also come from a farming background where I worked and lived for probably the first 35, 38 years of my life.

And it wasn't until later in my life that we moved to Malaysia.

I got into education.

Cool.

Cool.

Well, Ian, let's dive right into our topic tonight.

And that is, so where do schools create the biggest disconnect for families?

I think the main key thing is for most schools to think about is, well, is to, is to really have clear lines of communication so they understand what the parent, parents needs are and what, what they need to communicate across.

Often even culturally there can be a lot of differences, particularly cause I work in an international school, you get different families from different cultures that truly don't understand either the curriculum or even the, the culture.

The American culture, it can be quite jarring.

So a good example of this in China they have an exam that's for their grade 12 students equivalent called the Geico and it's really intense.

So that sort of, it's a very rigid system, whereas the American system, it's more student focused and, you know, finding the strengths in a student rather than just dictating what they need to learn.

Often in traditional methods of education, it's all about memorization and then regurgitation without really understanding the concepts.

Yeah, yeah.

So from a family's point of view then how does that look a little differently than it does to us as educators?

Yeah, look, I think one of the disconnects that people often find themselves in as educators is not being able to put themselves in somebody else's shoes.

So when there's a conflict or when a parent seems really demanding, we often need to remind ourselves of how we would feel if we were in their position.

So I had a conversation recently with a colleague talking about this topic, and he was quite frustrated that somebody else wasn't understanding the parent's position quite clearly or hadn't resolved the position.

But sometimes instead of just blocking off or saying, no, I can't fix this, it's important to be able to find a resolution and to work with the parent, find out what the parent, A parent's needs are, understand why they're upset, and try to come to, I suppose, come to a conclusion where both parties can be amicable and meet and understand each other.

So that way the parent understands why you can't solve the problem or that you can solve the problem.

But the most important thing is, is that you're making an effort.

Sure, sure.

And that's what parents just want to see, you know?

You know, often they want that connection, that understanding and communication.

I think parents also, they want to belong to a community.

Often when international families, when they move overseas, they're leaving behind all their families back in their home countries.

So their family, in essence, becomes their international school.

And that's where they come together.

They'll meet other people that are in the same position, same boat, same problems, whether it be transport problems, finding a new home, meeting new friends, all those sorts of things.

So it's really vital for schools, particularly international schools or even local schools, to become that hub, that community hub that parents really need.

It's more, I believe education is more than just reading, writing, arithmetic.

It's community.

It's everything, particularly in this day and age.

Yeah, you know, it makes me think the other day I received an email from a parent.

They had a handful of questions on it.

And I'm at a large enough school district where we have departments.

We have enough, you know, separation for some of those job titles or job duties.

And in that email there was, I think, four questions.

And there were four different departments that would answer that question.

And it had been very easy for me to just respond with a, well, I can answer this part.

You're going to have to talk to this person, that person, that person.

But really, that's not the experience that that parent needs.

I mean, if they've taken the time and effort to reach out to me, yes, I Realize we have some parents that reach out for everything.

I get that.

But you also have a lot of parents that.

That's hard.

That's hard to be able to get up enough courage to send that email because they're.

They need some information, they need some assistance.

And instead of sending that off to a whole bunch of people, best thing I can do right there is just try to, okay, might take me a little bit of time, but maybe I go try to find some of those answers.

So my reply at least has something to it.

And then if they need more, then I might have to move them on to that person.

Thoughts on that?

I mean, is that something that would help, do you think, or.

Yeah, absolutely, Adam.

The.

One of the things is that a parent doesn't view a school in its parts, in its departments.

It sees it as a whole.

Okay?

So when you're replying to a parent, if it's an email, you're lucky because you don't have to act on the spur of the moment.

You can have a think about what you need to write, maybe communicate with some of your other colleagues and say, hey, I've got this parent.

They've asked some questions.

How can I answer them without them having to email all these different departments?

Which causes chaos, frustration.

And we know in this busy world that we have today, the last thing that we need is more communication lines when we've got social media, LinkedIn, Facebook, Class, Dojo, PowerSchool, all these other platforms that are trying to grab our attention.

So, yeah, being really clear and concise with information.

But I think, yeah, also transparency is really important.

So if you don't know the answer, just be honest with the parent.

Just say, hey, look, don't know the answer.

Can I get back to you on this?

And that way the parent knows that you're making an effort, even if you don't have the answer straight away.

However, having said that, one of the important things is that I believe is to be responsive and try to be as quick as possible.

You know, when you get an email or you might get a message or something from a parent that's got a query, and then you decide to prolong your response for a day or two or three.

That's when you're making, you know the old expression making a mountain out of a molehill, the parent gets frustrated, they start thinking about it all the time when they go back home at night or whatever.

And something small can turn into something really big quite quickly.

And as we know, people expect quick response in today's society, Goes back to, you know, all these different platforms, we get notifications all the time, so people expect a quick response.

And if you don't have that response straight away, like I said, just politely say, hey, look, I'll look into it.

Can I get back to you?

And that's, that's the way that I would expect.

Like, as a parent, I'd appreciate that because at least they're being honest and forthright and they're looking into the answer for me.

Yeah, I think that's a great point right there.

And at some times, you know, I think we forget that.

Yeah, this may not seem like a big deal to us when we read it, just based on all of the other things that are going on as a school leader.

But to that parent in that moment, it is a big deal.

It might be the only deal that's going on.

And so if we're not able to respond in a timely matter, you're right.

It's all that's going to happen is it will get worse, it won't get better.

Whatever is going to happen from that piece will just make it harder for us to be able to work with that parent, to be able to build that trust back up.

I think that's great.

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So if leaders, if we're wanting to be a little bit more proactive in this, Ian, and if we want to try to, like, develop a more connected experience across our organization, what are some proactive things we can do to be prepared for it before that phone call happens?

Cool.

I think, you know, as administrators or leaders, I think the important thing is there's a couple of things to be mindful of.

Try not to be too cold or austere, and then on the other side, try not to be disingenuous.

So if you know what I mean.

So sometimes you'll meet people in life that will go, hey, how you doing?

And then as soon as they start turning their back, they're just like a complete change.

It doesn't really seem real.

So it's important to follow through on any sort of communication that you have with parents and families.

We've got a fantastic principal that I work with and he's lovely, outstanding with all the kids and the parents and he takes time to know what they're up to.

He goes out and plays basketball with the kids during the, during the break and stuff like that.

So he forges a real connection.

And when you can forge those connections, even with the students, the students will be like, they'll come home, they'll talk to their parents and say, the principal took his time out of his day just to play with us.

You know, those are special moments.

Another moment that really impressed me was our superintendent when he first came on board.

We, we had a one on one meeting and we're talking about just cleaning staff and lay staff and all the people that work behind the scenes.

And we came to the same.

Well, we're on the same point in the sense that every time I meet somebody or if I have a cleaner come into my office and clean the rubbish bins and stuff, I always make a point to say, thank you so much, I really appreciate it.

Or you know, hey, how you doing?

And then don't finish it there.

Ask them a question about their family or, you know, what's it like to live in Nepal?

Because we have a lot of Nepalese guards.

Find out a little bit about their culture.

Like, one of the things that struck me when I first came to Malaysia is they would say, great to see you, sir.

And they'd put their hand on their chest.

Okay.

And I would say, so what are you trying to say?

What do you mean when you, when you do that?

And they say for us it means from our heart.

So now I make an effort.

When I see some of the guards, if I'm really grateful for something, I say thank you so much because it shows that you, you care about them, you care about their culture.

And the other thing is, is that all these people.

Clannas the, the guards, they're all advocates for the school.

So the most important asset that we have in any school is not the facilities, it's not the programs, all that stuff.

It's the people that work here.

It's the people because they're, in essence, they kind of like our salespeople.

Sounds terrible.

But they're selling the school too.

If they're happy, we're going to have happy students.

If the students are happy, parents are going to be happy.

And it's a really positive cycle that if you can get, create a culture like that, that's positive reinforcement, then it makes a huge difference.

And you can make just a small difference to somebody's day.

You know, sometimes people are having a lousy day, crappy day, excuse my language.

But just simply taking the time to spend even 30 seconds or a minute out of your day, ask them, how are you?

What have you been doing?

But instead of asking generic questions, because that's another trap that people fall into, they say, hey, how you doing?

And subconsciously, the other person just gives a snouted reply.

But it's only when you engage with that person you actually get involved.

You ask them, so what are you doing for this weekend?

Like, I just spoke to a colleague just before we, we got on this conversation, before we got onto this podcast, he said, oh, well, I've got leave this week.

And I said, great, so where are you going?

And then that continued in a conversation.

He told me that he's going to Thailand.

Phuket.

I said, fantastic.

I love Phuket.

What's your favorite thing and.

Or what are you doing?

And that engagement shows that you're invested in them.

Yeah.

So the next time you meet them, you know you're gonna have a positive relationship, whether it's through other departments, head of departments, or just cleaning staff.

Anyone.

That's good.

I mean, I think what you're saying is really true, though, because a lot of times we'll refer to those as little things.

Right.

But those little moments, they really aren't little things.

Those are huge.

Those carry so much weight.

And I also like the fact of you talking about the community as a whole.

I mean, really, our school district, a lot of places, it is the heartbeat of the community.

It is absolutely what the community is based up.

And I think that challenge for us as leaders is to stop worrying about whether all of these little departments.

I know that's what we've talked about here to start the day, but rather than all of these little things doing well and really, we just got to start asking whether or not the entire experience makes sense to all of our families on the other side, that they feel that as one.

Because at the end of the day, they don't care that there's five departments.

They know that there's one school.

And that's the most important part to our families.

Ian, this has been a great conversation today.

I really appreciate you jumping on here, but I think we're gonna have you back.

We'll be back for a couple more episodes.

Boosters, thanks for joining us here again today and we will back talking with you again next time.

That's your morning boost from AWB Education and Media.

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