Curating a College List

Welcome to From Carpool to College, a show for parents who are trying to get ahead or just keep their sanity while navigating the college planning landscape. Welcome to From Carpool to College. I am Tracy Amadeo and Tara Harritz, And in this episode we're going to talk about curating the college list because Tara and I are getting a lot of calls for that right now. Oh man, did you hear that? That's another call? Is it about? Yeah? Actually it is a client. That's so funny. Love the MacBook. Love how my mac is sank to my phone. I know. But it is tis the season for our seniors to be all set with their applications, and now we are working with our juniors and even some sophomores who are looking at curating their list. So we wanted to address how we do it a little bit in the scenes, right exactly. So we usually have a family intake meeting, right, Yeah. We go through and you know, get to know where the family is in the process, where they usually are in the beginning stages. But we go through and we get to know what's important to them and their child and what they want in terms of a college and sometimes it can be a big web that they cast, and sometimes it can be kind of small. We try to if it's too small, you know, encourage them to think a little bit bigger than that. And if it's too big, then we our favorite thing is to kind of you know, bring them in a little bit, and we do that through questions and you know, conversation about their interests and different things that make the most sense for that specific family, obviously with the student in mind. Right. So Tara and I are we have our day jobs where we are public school employees. We keep that separate from our private practice academic mentoring where we are independent college consultants career consultants. So the experience that families get in school public school, independent school, private school versus with an independent counselor, it's going to be different. And during the school day for school counselors, it's really tough to make that list. We rely on very few touch points with our students because we don't have enough time in the day, and we also rely a lot on programs like Naveance or score where students are completing surveys. So we wanted to you know, we will never, never be dismissive of what we do during our day jobs, but you will get a different experience working with a you know, a consultant versus what you're getting during the school day. Though our services absolutely overlap. But we did want to pull back the curtain a little bit to educate parents as to how we do that initial let's sit down and talk about what schools you might want to take a look at. So Tara's going to go through a couple of the key points that we we talk about in that that sit down. Not to sound like the Sopranos, and you know we are from New Jersey, but we have a sit down with the family and sometimes it's a zoom, sometimes it's in person at a Panera or someone's dining room table, but we do like we believe that it is a family decision. We've had other episodes where we spoke about what really influences your kid's list. We want to respond to how we go about generating. The list, right, and so some of the questions we'll ask and I guess we have that little bit of a nosy nature to us, so that works well or curious, right. I like to say that's a clinical interview there we go. But you know, but saying that, we find that families will tell us a little more of what's going on behind the scenes when it's just a phone call with Tara and the mom, or me and the mom, or me and the dad or whoever, whoever, whatever parent is calling us, and they'll give us a little more background about their kid. And then what I see as a school counselor during the day, it's a lot it's a lot more guarded, oh, because I know for me as a mom, I'm not telling the school what's going on in my house, right, No, I mean they'll get like the tip of the iceberg. But I feel like in a private practice, it's a little more intimate for sure, it's a different relationship. Right. So some of the major questions that we kind of just start with, are you know, the academic considerations, right, that would be one of them. Yeah. Sure. And I not to toot my own horn, but I think I invented a term. Yeah. I call it academic fitness, yes, And I feel like that is a measure of a student's productivity and success in the classroom. It's purely academic. It's how they study, when they study, what they're producing, are they keeping up? Can they take notes? What is your academic fitness level? And for parents, it's also it's hard to tell. It's hard to tell as a parent, maybe your kid is doing their homework on the bus. Did your kids ever admit to doing homework on the bus? Mine did no. But during like the class before, which was a study hall or something like that, not understanding the concept that if you do it the night before, it's a lot better. It's going to come out better, right, And I'm thinking now, maybe when they said they were doing their homework on the bus, they were really just copying it from somebody else. Somebody else, Oh, God, for sure. So the other one that we usually focus on, the major point would be the social and cultural fit. Oh, you know, before we jump to social and cultural also academics and we know, I remember you were talking to a dad at a baseball game about this about grades, about GPA, and there's a lot of talk out there about great inflation. There's a lot of talk about what is the GPA really measuring? And we talk about weighted GPA. So for our sit downs with families, we will ask how is your kid performing in these classes? But also which classes are they taking and at what level, because we know a lot of learning. There were a lot of learning gaps with COVID, but there's also learning gaps naturally, and there's a lot of challenges. So an honest assessment, you parents may not realize that your kid is maybe a chickadee instead of a woodpecker when it comes to math, but maybe they're a bird of prey when it comes to reading and writing. So and I say that because I'm a bird nerd, but I'm really talking about truly different levels of academic aptitude and abilities. And it's okay, and it's human. I mean, God bless you if you have some you know Dynamo who is just like killing it with way above grade level and ninety nine percent TILE and all their achievement tests and getting a's and a pluses and just like pac Man just tump up dap, like just chomping away at all the academics. That's awesome, But most of us don't have that, right. Most of us don't have kids like that, right, And you'll find that they have more natural inclinations for one subject or the other. So, when Tara and I sit with families we look at the transcript as a whole to get a sense of where are those areas of strength and equally, where are those where are those deficiencies? Right exactly. And I think just to you know, kind of add onto that looking at the academic part of it, So if a child is really strong academically, there might be some other factors to consider where they might have some I don't want to say weaknesses, but other areas that may be a little bit more. Like social social social anxiety, right or we have, oh my gosh, we have many of our friends and families have students, have kids who are on the spectrum and it is a neurological wiring of how they interact with other with other people, and that again it's not a judgment, but it's also but it's a consideration, right right, because we want our kids to engage and flourish. And as we curate that list, it's just one more facet of things to consider on what schools are going to land right on there exactly. And I think with that social and cultural fit, we like to know what types of community organizations or different you know, affiliations that a family and a student may have because then we can offer some recommendations that may not even have been on their radar. Sometimes students and families will come with a list that they think is the one for them, and we can just you know, enforce some or not enforce, but you know, make sure that they're on the right track with it and and see if there's anything that they've overlooked in terms of that. But so moving to the next one, we're thinking of location, I would say, right, that's now run with list. That might be the first one. I love it. During my day job, I have a big map in my office and my kids love it. Well, I'm a map nerd anyway, So I love just the spatial representation of where these schools are located in relation to where I live and where we live. So how far is too far? Do you want to travel in a car to visit your kid? Do you want to be you know, how far away do you want your kid to be? Now, parents, I'm talking specifically to you. Parents. You know your kid. Your kid may say, get me the heck out of insert your state, right, get me at a Jersey Okay, Well, that could be three hours, that could be that could be two hours. One way that could be ninety minutes one way, but it or half an hour. It depends on where you live. But really it's an issue. It's a function of how accessible do you need to be to touch base on your kid realistically. So, for example, my guy, one of my guys, was four and a half hours away from school. It was hard. It was hard to keep tabs on him and touch base and get up there. On a weekend. It would be like, ough, do I really want to travel nine hours in one day to have lunch with him? That's rough, that's rough, and he needed to see me. So parents, think about your kid because your kid may be saying one thing, but we. Know our kids right, and I know right exactly, and I think a great way to kind of filter that with any of these topics. But specifically, the location factor is picture a day, right, Picture yourself on campus on a Tuesday. It's a Tuesday, and you're in week four of your freshman year, first semester. What does that day look like for you? And because then they will start to think about what it may mean in so many different ways. Are they going back to their dorm or are they driving back home to you know, live at home, like what is going on in in a specific day. And I think when they can place themselves there and remove all of the other influences that are coming in, they can really maybe get a truer sense of what may work for them and putting one of those colleges on the list that may be a little bit more comfortable for them once they do that. Right, And I like how you're you know, visualizing what does your day look like? Because I'll even get more specific when you finish your class and you walk back to your dorm and you go up your four flights of stairs to your dorm room and there's a room that's half the size of your bedroom of your home, and your roommate's in there, and you're sharing that space with your roommate. What is your tolerance for living with other people in close quarters as well? You know, what kind of space does your kid need? And that's that's social, that's sensory, that's that's you know, if you come from a family where there's a lot of siblings, or if you know, what is your kid's experience And it's okay to have a whole new experience, but it's also something to talk about, right because I've had a handful of class who are very boldly, unapologetically. Oh hell no, I am not living in a dorm. I'm going to commute like great, awesome. But for whatever reason, that's not the culture. Yeah. The culture is everybody goes away. Everybody, everybody goes Yeah. My nephew went to a very urban school setting and he lived right across from a farm where there were cows. Oh so rural. Urban. At first, I'm like, oh no, no, no, no no, I mean like he grew up. Oh, he grew up he urban and then went to r Wait a minute, wrong way, wait, let me start over. Let me while Tara is thinking, I will tell you that we're looking for corporate sponsorship from Espresso right now. An Espresso. If you're hearing us, we really enjoy your products. I have an Espresso machine in the pods, and they're a little pricey on our teacher salaries, and if you know, if someone could just send us some more Espresso pods, we would really appreciate it. So we need them, we need them to Okay, here we go. So he went away to school to a very urban area, got it city like, but grew up in a very rural area where there were cows that would often run loose on the property. Oh my god. Okay, so very good school. But lived there for a year, had his own apartment, dorm room. It wasn't a typical dorm. It was more of a of an apartment building that they rented, whatever the case may be. So he went he want he wound up commuting wow, and our each but it was about an hour each way. Okay. He's in his junior year now, and one of his biggest complaints was it was so noisy at night, couldn't sleep, and just all the traffic and everything, and it was just too much for him and he needed to be back home. So would would I've ever even thought of that when he first went away to school. Yeah, you know, it is a different environment, but you wouldn't think like it would be to the point of where he would need to move back home. But he's he did well his first two years. But he's doing equally as well and saving on sure room and board. Yeah. Wow, Yeah, these are just but these are but as you can see, terror these are conversations and this is why we have these conversations with families, with students and parents will have different answers than their kids, and it's important for us as consultants we listen to both. You will listen to both, and very often we'll say, okay, well, here's a list that your parents have their stamp of approval on, and here is the list that the student the client will have they're with their wish list is and then we meet somewhere in the middle, of course, but we don't ever want to box out someone's ideas. But again, like Tower's example, great example for that, and we also don't want to be the only person of our kind type situation in that school. So let's say I am like I don't, I wouldn't. Diversity is a huge thing, and for us in Northern New Jersey, we're diversity. We're like a human spice rack over here. And for a North Jersey kid to go somewhere that's less diverse in every way, even with food and culture, is a bit of a shock and adjustment. Not that you would throw out a total school for that, but it's a consideration, right, definitely a consideration. So these are all the conversations we have as we curate our school lists. That's right. The next thing that we always consider is the cost right? So I don't think correct me if I'm wrong on this. I don't think that an initial list should start with what can we afford? I think it should start with where might you be interested in applying or looking more looking into, and then from there we start to bring that conversation and about cost. I don't think it should initially be well, these are your three options, because this is all that's within our budget. That's just my person. Oh no, that's absolutely it because just like like, no one's paying sticker price right for a college. So two and if you are, we need an intervention on that one because you're being bamboozled, but we're not. It's a consideration, yes, and it becomes more of a consideration in a couple of facets. So we're talking about what kind of school, you know, I don't want to. Oh, it's so hard to talk about this without talking. She's sticking her head. Don't say it, don't say Penn State. Don't say Penn State. I love Penn State. But well, well just I will. I will say it. Okay, I'm gone too because I'm a Jersey girl. Okay, okay, so everyone loves Penn state in North Jersey, but Penn State, Oh no, We'll talk about Texas. University of Texas at Austin, Okay. So University of Texas at Austin. Everyone, it's a beautiful school, but guess what their whole jam is to take care of Texas first, and ninety percent of their students are from the great, big, beautiful state of Texas. Okay. So they're going to take care of their own which every state school, flagship school should, it's part of their mission. So as we apply to out of state schools, yes, tuition, you may have a lower sticker price, but if you're out of state, you're paying full price. You're not getting a lot of the financial aid, you're not getting a lot of the same scholarships that were offered to in state students. So these are all price considerations. So yes, make your list with you know, with not not really like being budget minded, but as it gets closer, when you examine what you would be eligible for for merit money, that then that becomes that becomes the finalization of well, this could be a great school for you because you won't be paying full price. That makes sense? That makes sense? Or do I need more espresso also espresso, no pods, Virtuo machine for those of you who are listening, we will happily take them. No, that makes sense. But I think, like when you're talking to the parents who are very systematic and organized, and you know, I think I think that when it comes to the college list, it should fall together a little bit more organically at first, and then you run it through the filters. Right, you want your kids to just start thinking about different options and then you can move to a more specific list from there. But I don't think that you should definitely rule anything out in the very beginning stages or you know, make it you know more about where you want to see them going. It has to really be just kind of naturally start to take shape. Yeah, right, It becomes like ruling out things and crossing out the things. What do we feel comfortable crossing off today? And it's not going to happen in a day or a week or a month. I mean, you start the conversation. So my younger child, every time we went to a tournament or to go visit a school for my older one, we would go into the bookstore and buy a baseball t shirt for him. So his latest one is buck Noll. So he's going to buck Noll because that's the shirt that he loves to wear and he wears it every single week. A few months ago, it was a different one, and it's just, oh, that one has some stains on it. We're going to pull this one out. So the story wants to go. But like, that's okay, that's fun. Early on, you can, you know, just start thinking about things, and then as you move closer to it is where you really start to run those filters. And we do have families who know where. We have students who know exactly what they want to study, and we have families who've done the research and they come to us with a list already, and that's great, and we kind of, oh, if you like this, why don't you try this one? Yeah, just to kind of enhance the list a little bit. But I work with a family. I love this family. I'm not going to say their name, and I know that they listen. It's my during my day job. And the boy wants to do ROTC. Okay, so it's very he has to be very strategic in where he applies because it has to have ro OTC. All right, that's number one number two, he's going to have his taris carefully putting down her coffee. I'm just she's doing such a good job. An espresso virtuo melazzio. I think that's how it's pronounced. We're gonna plug the hell out of that to try to get some free coffee. That'd be great. Every other podcast does that, don't they. I think so we're just that. We just like we're not We're not as business savvy as those so we're more education education. So anyway, this boy is going to have his associates degree by the time he graduates high school, so he's looking very carefully about how the credits will transfer. He's looking for ROTC. He's looking for business administration so and dad is in financial planning. So he had the spreadsheets all set. Made my job so easy, made my job so easy. But the school was like that. The list was like twenty schools long. I'm like, dude, you are not applying to all these schools. Yeah, twenty is a lot. Twenty is a lot. We used to say like six to nine. Now I'm seeing they're more like twelve the average. How many did Annie apply to do you remember? I think it was six or bull. Yeah, that's because mom's a college planner. Yeah, six or seven maybe. Good job, good job mom. Yeah, Like they actually listened to us. So, like I would have to work a little bit with Tarifs kid. She would talk to my kids like. It's hard as parents because the other layer of this parents and you know this, but we're here to remind you because you are a parent, You're most likely if you were an average fan, your kid is going to tune you out. So very often Tara and I will say the exact same things that parents say about schools, about life, about everything, and if it's our own kid, they will not listen to us. So and this is very tricky when it comes to curing in a college list. So sometimes parents we have to close our mouth and just listen, take notes, take copious notes, and also do your research and then gently bring in, you know, some compromising information. This is what we're going to do. And I know the mama bearon me was like, well, hey, you know, I'm paying for this, so I get to say and that's not wrong and is absolutely not wrong. But this is a it's a it's a family decision, and the trick is to have our kids be kind of push against what the Like the other episode we had about what really influences your kid's list, just kind of keep an open mind and make educated decisions as a family unit. It's tough, though, it is tough. It is tough. Okay, So as we start to wrap up, are we ready to wrap up at this point? Yeah, So let's think in terms of a little bit of like a step by step right to start bigger, start early, right, start bigger, start early, and it is going to change. That college list is going to change, right, So you start big. Then as you explore those different schools, you can go a little bit, dive a little bit deeper into it if it allows you and you're able to, if you know you schedule wise financially, make a trip or two because that will help. Really, I had a student who thought, for sure, definitely this one school was one hundred percent certain, got on the campus and was like, never mouth. It to me, don't say it out loud. Oh yes, yeah, and so sorry listeners, but I couldn't. But that is that could happen. I was shocked. I was totally shocked about it. But it will happen, and you know, for whatever reasons. But so just start big, start to narrow, as I would say, you know that early junior year, sophomore year is happening, because then you can really kind of visit, make your plan to visit, and then go into the more specifics of the cost and you know majors and all those those filters that you know will help you to decide. Oh for sure. And parents, the resources that we like. We love when parents use the net price calculators on the websites for the for each school. We love when parents refer to the local data that is part of naveance or score or the college software that your high school it subscribes to use that local data. And we love like the college board has great like my Big Future, like there are a lot of great sources to fill out the questionnaires about size and location and majors and use it, use the AI, use it all. But just now, as Tara said, like that is this is a this is a live list, and there's ads and drops and ads and drops, and to really keep an open mind making sure that you have a nice balance list. Right, So that's it parents, and then for us too, Tara and I as independent counselors We have access to a lot of subscription services where we they're kind of like little mini encyclopedias that are insiders. So I don't want to plug any of those, but we do belong to some kind of clearing houses that we will just flip through our resources. Yeah, we'll categorize it for special considerate like schools that social butterflies, like schools that are good for students who have learning disabilities, like they're kind of off the record, like kind of not things that should be open to the public that are more insider. So that's another source that independents can use, and school counselors have those two you're allowed. A licensed school counselor will have access to those resources as well. So we do wish you luck for sure, but you don't need luck. You need skill and an open mind I guess too, and lots of coffee. What kind of coffee, misspresso espresso? Yes, virtual pods, please send them to from carpool to College And I'm Tracy Amadeo, Tara Harritt. Thanks for joining us today. Thank you so much for tuning into today's episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, we'd love for you to be a part of our growing community. Please share and follow our show. For those who want to support us further, join our Patreon site here. Support helps us create high quality content and great episodes. Plus, our Patreon members get exclusive perks like bonus episodes, early access, and behind the scenes content that we think. You're just going to love. And now for some legal stuff. The content of this podcast is for informational and educational entertainment purposes only, and it's provided as is, with no guarantee of accuracy, completeness, timeliness, or outcomes. I could keep going, but I will spare you, and I will post this entire legal disclaimer on our website www. Dot Academic MENTORINGLLC dot com under podcast. Tara and I are so glad you joined us today on from Carpool to College. See you next time. Something like that. Yeah, Gun's good, Okay, Chris, make that pretty please? Pretty please? Make it pretty please? M m hmmmmmmmmmmmm Like pac Man, Just tap tap tap, dap, dap,