Control+Shift+Lead - Empowering School Leadership Navigating Evaluations and Building Capacity

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Take the mystery out of your score and get your Fyco score for free today. Visit myfico dot com slash free and discover the score lenders use most. Are you a school. Leader striving for excellence? Do you crave actionable strategies and fresh perspectives to navigate the challenges of education today? Get ready to take charge. This is control Shift Lead giving you something to control, something to shift your thinking, and something concrete to help you lead your school. With Jim Witchman of Inspired Edification and Adam Bush of AWB Education, your journey to empowered leadership starts now. Welcome back to Control Shift Lead on the AWB Education Network. I hope your summers off to a fantastic start. Absolutely it is. It's hot. It's hot here right now, all of a sudden in Iowa. It's like the heat wave just hit us out of the blue. It's crazy. I gotta tell you though, with fifty five years of winners, I'm never going to complain about the eating humidity again. That's true. That's true. A good time to get out, get a little sun, enjoy the weather a little bit. It's awesome. It's been great. It's good to be back in the studio with you. Jim. How are you been well? Thanks? I appreciate it. It been great. I mean it's it was a heck of a June month. My son, my youngest, graduated. Yeah, so he's going off to the University of Viola. Go hog. Yeah. Okay, that's a fine cyclone fan on my side. But that's all right. I'm not going to hold that against you. That's all right, right, right, But so we're been treating you well. It has been I've had the opportunity to work with educators in West Virginia and Virginia and awesome. It has been awesome, and which makes it awesome. One of my side gigs I get your main gigs is that I get the opportunity to coach leaders. Well. The last two times in the respectful Estates has been working with middle school principles or their teams. And what makes coaching wonderful is that people truly do just want to get better if they want to see things differently. They love their profession and sometimes we get things that kind of fog are thinking them and so we just need somebody to come in and how to help out a non invaluative way. I've really kind of really clearly articulating yeah, which kind of goes along with what we're going to talk about later today. It gets you back to your why a little bit. Oh, it helps you see the why. So goodtimes you clear out the mud, get more target, to get more focused and what what we're really intentionally trying to get accomplished, and then people know what they're doing. Yeah, build a little capacity and kind of Oh that's awesome. Yeah, that's cool. Well, it hasn't been my summer. I haven't been nearly that busy so far, which is great, exactly what I tried to do, I mean taken. I've had so many vacation days to take by the end of June because that's when we had to It's when we had to get them taken care of so I don't get the angry email from HR. So I've been taking those, although we did from our last our last episode, we talked about, you know, taking some time to eat with your with your team a little bit and you get the op. Yeah. Last week I threw some turkey breasts and pulled pork or a pork bud on the on the old smoker and brought it in and we all ate lunch together and had a good time. Tell me you're from the Midwest without telling me you're from the mid exactly. Yeah, pulled pork on a smoker. That just sounds like a wonderful, wonderful team lunch. Then it'd be a little tricky to get that accomplished today. Yeah, today, it's a little windy here in old Iowa today. That's for sure. Well that's good, that's good. But you know, outside of that, for me, it's been it's been doing that stuff and trying to get caught up, and then getting getting caught up on some of the readings and stuff too. It's that mix of a deep dive and a new resources and just enjoying, honestly, just enjoying some of that slower pace it's made as little clarity of breathing can do and get your kind of back and track. We talked a lot about over the last few episodes about being intentional, taking care of yourself if you hear yourself at the center. My wife and I recently get the opportunity to attend a wedding okay of a longtime friend where their daughter is their their youngest is getting married okay, and we talked about seeing her walk down the aisle and all of a sudden you flash back to seeing her as a as a young redheaded, curly girl hanging out playing dolls with your daughter, and then all the family time that you've had together, and then what's wonderful about that is as the adults, we still get to be a part of those little celebrations of walking. As my wife would say, we enter into a new season, and I got to tell you that that little moment, as I shared with the father of the Bride, I said, sometimes we just got to be very present, take visual images, pictures and then just kind of sit with that for you out there. Oh, that's awesome that energy is And I know we're going to talk about that here a little bit, kind of you know, when we get to our shifter thinking piece at energy piece, but it's kind of what you're talking about. Yes, that's perfect segue because today we've got some great insights coming your way, giving you something to control, something you shift you're thinking, and something concrete to help you lead your school. So hey, let's get started. Absolutely all right, welcome back. So yes, as Jim said, each episode, we are going to focus on three things, and our first one we're going to focus on, of course, is things that we could control. And today our topic is planning your EVOL schedule or getting a head start on getting all of those evaluations, walk throughs, all the meetings that go along with it, getting those into a calendar and getting them going, getting them ready to go. Now I'm kind of guessing, Jim, I know you well enough to know this is probably not your number one priority in the summertime. Is getting everything at a calendar. Absolutely it is not. I always think about it as you've I've always gotten next week, yeah, and we know what that means, and then next week and the next day. And as a result, it's crazy. As a result of that kind of mentality, I'm scrambling in January, February, March to get things done, and then as a result, April becomes my most hated month. Yeah. Yeah, well, and I was guilty of that this year too, which that's not I'm not typically that way. I mean, my calendar is you know, color coded. I mean I've got everything lined up and ready to go for a year. And you've heard about people like, yeah, I know, I'm kind of that weird guy. But even this past year just it didn't work out that way as much as I had some plans and wanted it to. I'm I'm sitting here in late April, early in May just trying to finish out some evaluations. And when we're doing them at that pace and we're not, we're not doing them when we should be doing them. It's I don't know. To me, I think we're we're cheating our employees. We're cheating their ability to get the good leadership that they need from us. We struggle with constantly the evaluation system being a hoop, Yeah, something to jump through, wish box, checkbox, which is so it's not a waste it is. It's not a good use of our time and energy. But it's also a waste of time, it's true, and we can avoid some we can avoid all that. Yeah, it's kind of funny, the checkbox piece. And you know all old colleague of ours, Dan Meyer and I, when Dan and I we started this when we worked together, and then when I moved to another building, and just we kept going with it. We would get to that point of the year where you got your last walk through done, and it was a it was a text to the other person like, hey, got my last walk through done? Where are you at? You know, I mean, it was kind of a competition at that point in time. But although it was it did feel good to get your last walk through do, right, I also didn't want to just rush through them because otherwise it is just a checkbox. And then again, like you said, the energy piece why are we doing it if we're not doing it for the right reason? Right? Nobody got time for that? No, nobody has time. So what do you do? How do you get scheduled? How do you get well? I think, to me, first things first, I got to look to see what does your load look like? And that was part of the reason why last year was hard for me because eighty percent of the people on my roster for evaluation were in there in their major year, so they all had the the full no, it's pretty brutal, So they had the full gamut of evaluation expectations, right, But you got to look at that first. What do we have? How many evaluations do I have to do versus walkthroughs? You know, how many new teachers do I have? How many maybe people that are in a new team. You know, there's going to be a little bit of a difference, even if it's not a valuative, it's more coaching piece. Just to try to get an idea for myself of what I'm getting myself into and then start trying to plot that out a little bit, make sure that I'm getting the people that I really need to get to early in the calendar. We all know how the calendar works, we know how the year starts to spiral at times and predictable. Yeah, you know, it just is what it is. So trying to hammer those things out ahead of time, you know, want to micromanage everybody's time. It might be windows. You know, I'm going to try to do this evaluation during this two week window or I don't know that's how I do it. But again, I'm one of those weird i's that has everything on the calendar. Anyway, So we talk about my I mentioned by system in my process, and it wasn't effective and it became hoops for everybody, and it just it actually created tension sometimes too. Sure, So will I evolved to I know you're going to like this. I evolved to a spreadsheet, and in that spreadsheet it had all that. I had the number of slots you needed for walkthroughs or the evaluations. I had first year, I had, Second year, I had new and it was beautiful. And then when you pleted the walk through or the evaluation whatever, you put the data in there and then I customize it. I learned how to do this. When you put it in there, it turns to green. Oh yeah, So the goal is to get everything green. That's all right, that's right. So I set all that up and I have a conversation with my the assistant principles that we're all on the same page. But I needed help still, so I always leaned in on my administrative assistant, yeah, and explain the process to her. Had her kind of schedule, I say, when I want them scheduled, it's kind of like you you did, so she would coordinate with the teachers to schedule within the time for theme, and as a result, I was on pace she could. I think that's probably one of the most underutilized because we try to take care of each other so much. I think people are worried that that feels impersonal when you do it that way. And I've done it this fact this year is exactly. Probably the only reason why I even survived it at all this year was that I did that exact thing. Was I I have a handful of administrative assistants that do various roles for me just because of the role I'm in, And I thought that rolls rolls, yeah, exactly, And that was my first fear was that it was going to feel very impersonal, like why he doesn't even have the time to No, that wasn't the That was not the reaction that I got for my staff. The staff really felt kind of more empowered about, Oh, he's given me this window. It's not a surprise. It doesn't feel like, you know, we have this major deadline. It's a general idea. And you know, I had I had somebody like, hey, you know, you always get a little bit of the dog and pony show sometimes with these and we understand that's part of it. But they had said, hey, I'd really like some feedback on a certain lesson I'm doing, but that's not going to be for two more weeks. Would you be okay shifting that window? Absolutely, I'd be okay shifting that window to give that opportunity for people to be able to have that input in when this when's the best time to actually get something out of this experience. So let's think back about the whole purpose of this is to grow. Not gotcha ye grow yep. So if we look at it through the lens of this is about a growth, and then sure it does matter to do that. In fact, I think at any time an administrator goes into in a classroom, it should be completely transparent about what you're looking for, what the focus is, and understanding that that is a part of the evaluation. It's not now you mentioned Dan Meyer. Well, I had a former principal, Daniel Meyer. Yeah, and he would come in this is old school way back with his notepad yep, script everything and write an evaluation from that. Those days are gone. Yeah, so you have to understand the observation the walker's it's just a story we're looking for. And why wouldn't you want the author to be a part of telling the story. Yeah, that's true, very true. You know. As something else as you were talking there made me think of another little trick. I suppose you could call it that somebody to share with me. A few years ago, they when they were planning their walkthrough as they would have a like you said, a clipboard, had paper on there ready to go, but they'd plot it out. Okay, I'm going to try to get to these five teachers today or these four teachers today. On that clipboard, not only did they write the teacher's name, you know, room whatever, all the things that they needed for the paperwork piece are going to have to fill out later, they also took a quick moment to go back to those beginning of the year meetings, what they met with everybody one on one, and goals that were established and some of the priorities that the teachers are trying to do that year. Yeah, and just put that right on that piece of paper. So when they walked into the room to do the walkthrough, they had that goal in mind, so they're looking for feedback that was related to that goal, knowing that that would be far more purposeful yes for that teacher afterwards. I've tried to do that every once in a while again in that room, like I forgot to do that part and then I'm scrambling to try to go find it quick. But it makes perfect sense to again make that part be as meaningful as you can since you're going to do it anyway. So we don't want it to be a hoop. We actually know that teachers want us in the room. We just make sure we need as ministry as we need to make sure that it's intentional and purposeful when we're in the room. Teachers want to be great, and we have to be able to give them the opportunity to be great by being supportive of their professional growth and their professional learning. I just kind of like what you were talking about right there. Hi, I'm doctor Lisa Hill, a longtime educator of nearly forty years as a teacher, counselor, professor, and vice principal, and I've seen just about everything public schools can throw at you. And now I'm sharing my tales on my comedy podcast, Vice Principal Unofficed. It's where school leadership meets laugh out loud. Stories from underwear required parent teacher conferences yes really, two staff launch confessions, and more. You won't believe. I'm telling it all with humor and a whole lot of heart. I also tackle the serious stuff too, like what schools really need to change and those behind the scene moments no one talks about. So if you're ready to laugh, learn, and maybe even cry a little, but mostly laugh, join me and my ninety year old mom, my unofficial co host on Vice Principal unofficed. New episodes drop bi weekly on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast bits. Trust me, this is one detention you'll actually look forward to. All right, edam, It's time to shift your thinking. Yes, When I was a young parent and I firmly believe that every parent is doing the best they know how, So keep that in mind. I leaned in on a little bit of love and logic. Okay, kind of give me some focus, some structure, whatever, some language. I believe it's from there that we used to share with our kids. Because their behavior, we would say, you're draining our energy. Yeah that's true. Really didn't know what that meant as an adult, but you're upsetting me as a parent. Kind of like that. So it might be the crying, not showing a toys, it could be whatever, not eating, absolutely name whatever. It is following the rules that we set up, and as parents, first time parents, we probably weren't very clear what those rules are. Anyway, just expect you to know them, just expect that you know an upset when you didn't. Yeah, that's true. So as a principle, I used to really try to in the effort of protecting the time of and energy of all the other teachers, I would try to do everything through my lens. I guess you would kind of say. So I meant planning all the professional development and assuming I knew what they needed, and then or planning out certain schedules when I'm not I think I kind of alluded to already I'm not the best best scheduler within that, so I would try to take care of all the problems. Actually, as a result, I was draining people's energy because they had to figure out what the heck I was trying to say, figure out what the heck I was trying to do. As a result, I learned that if I don't lean into their strengths or what I would call their superpowers, that I am the problem. I actually started building a compliant culture instead of building capacity. Well on how successful was that anyway? When you were controlling well, you know. I remember having a conversation with an instructional coach at a time and she said, pointed all this stuff out and said I was building a culture of compliance, and I argued with her, and then she started naming data points that I couldn't argue with and I'm doing the right thing. I got mad and walked out of my own office, walked around, came back in, sat down, and then said, Okay, what do we do? It was that moment that was really clear to me. The title just describes our main lead roles. We're humans first, and we need to lean in as humans first, and we got to figure out who we are and what gives us energy and what takes energy and share that. Well that I may have shared this quote before, but when I was a head football coach back many many years ago now and teams getting further and further away from today, but you know, I remember having that conversation with assistant coaches and you know, hey, I want you to coach. I don't want you to stand around waiting for me to tell you what to do, because if we're waiting, first of all, we're gonna be way behind everybody else and we're not gonna be very good if we're If you want me to be the smartest, you know, grand puba of information person, it's just not going to happen. We're not going to be successful doing that. And that's that's exactly what you're talking about there. So the shift here that we're talking about, though, is shifting from that mindset of controlling everything. Some would call that micromanaging, but certainly having to have control or being the person that does everything, but instead shifting to that art of delegation and delegating the right way, because it's not just about assigning tasks I know you mentioned this before and we were talking about the show today. It's not assigning tasks. It's about building capacity so that your team gets stronger and the people within the team get stronger. Now I haven't done a lot of that, I'll be honest. This is an area for me, Jim, that I struggle at because I want people to do things, and it's not that I want it to be done my way. I just sometimes struggle with what's the best way for me to unload that or offload that on to that person so they have success and I don't set them up for failure. It's a great question. First of all, before we go any further, I have to give you a little credit there with the Flintstones comment with the grand Pooba. Yeah, I don't know if all of our listeners understand that language, but the grand poop always. The leader, the absolutely, the lodge or whatever they call. Now you've just hit the limit of my recollection of the Flintstones. But that was that right there. I did my best. So you're right about when we build capacity to be we have to actually walk with people first. So Jimmy Castas would talk about you have to build up in his book, to recalibrate, you have to walk with people, making sure that the expectations is clear and so for so you don't just assume you know, people give you your thirty eight credits and so now you can be a principle or whatever the case is. No, you have to walk with so you model it, you practice, you plan with, let them go kind of like the coaching cycle and then we're going to close the loop at the end there and letting people sail on. Prior to that, I think we have to have to make sure that we have a clear anchor and what is our purpose here. So at my last school I was at, we had really two focus. Professional development can be anything in standards mindset. So it's understanding your standards, I'm packing your standards. How it was at meat, What does it mean to meet it? What are asfestments? All that? And then the other one is we want one hundred percent of our students identify with the trusted adults. And now we're talking about we've got to know the adolescent. We got to know the words that we use and the actions we do and the depth of altogether all together. Then of course you can lean into the parents a little bit with that as well. So I talk about the giving and taking advanergy from my child's thrown the temper tantrum. To me as a principal, it really comes down to I used the personality profile, the disc profile every one of the teachers had. We had. We knew all the information about the teachers and myself and so forth. So I would hire assistant principles that were not like me and then learn to value those skill sets versus judge those skill sets. So while we would say you're the planner, you're the planner. I'm the influencer, the fund whatever it is. Okay, those two were great together when you lean in. They can also be battles if you don't value that person and understand how theygether. So I had a great assistant principle where she could plan out and structure out anything so fast, meaning that I could spend hours doing it and I'm tired. She could be ten minutes and she loves it. I mean, it's like crazy to be like you. I would come to if I needed a spreadsheet, Adam, You'd be the first person I come to. Yeah, because you could see things that I can't see. I mean I can get there, but I can lean in on your superpower. And then all of a sudden, now we're building capacity. I had a teacher at the last I had a lot of great teachers, a lot of great humans I work with. I was in a meeting and I was trying to give directions, and like I shared before the show started, my brain sometimes works faster than my words. Yep, okay, I'm guilty of that. We had such a great, in my opinion, great culture that a staff member felt safe enough to raise her hand and say, hey, Jim, do you mind if and she asked if the assistant principal could give the directions moving forward. So three things happened there. First of all, the teacher felt safe to be able to say that yeah, yep. Two, we empowered the assistant and principle now to be a leader and to show her superpower. And three, oh my god, that was like rocket blocks falling off my shoulders because it was so stressful to be able to give those directions and speak in the way that they needed to be spoken. Now, all of a sudden, I've got energy. The assistant principle has energy. The teachers have energy because they have to stop figuring out what I'm trying to articulate. I mean, that's really it comes down to you. It's true, you know, so you take away that that shift you're thinking of the principle's just to be the boss. The principal's got to give the directions and all that. When really we've got to find that people and lean in. And when we are asking people to operate within there in this particular case that their their leaded disc profile, we are actually giving them energy. Yeah, and I think that's you know, we were talking about that whole concept of energy takers energy givers. If we don't understand that we're taking energy, it's it's really hard to ever give it or give that opportunity for someone to grow in that piece. Hi, it's me, I'm the problem that kind of thing. D Yeah, that's exactly. So when we become very clear on what it is we're asking and what we're wanting, what strengths we have within our system, then we can really start diving in. And again it's about maximizing the superpowers, valuing versus judging because they don't think the same way. Yeah, And we talk about this with the system principles and teachers, I think also, I mean, we all know, the person that runs a school building is usually the front office assistant, right, the person who's really got the pulse of the building. And I struggle sometimes there too about I don't want to just give something to somebody because I don't want to do it. But then also there's times where I've had to where I've like, hey, can you please, I just this needs to get done. I can't squeeze it in right now. And I always get them, yeah, sure, I'll take care of it, which is great. But then I come back later and I realized that that was the best thing I could have done. They wanted something, to have some ownership piece, you know, within the school. That is really their thing to do, and I just had to I had to get out of the way. I had to understand it was okay. One of my favorite sayings is you should only do what only you can do, and I forget that at times that there are certain things that only I can do because of the role, or because of the degree or something like that. There's an awful lot of stuff that's on my plate that somebody else could do and probably do it better than I can. If I just allow them to do it. How'd you say, again, only do what you can only do, only do what only you can do. Every single administrative assistant that I work with throughout the country in a coaching environment or whatever the case is, has said I wish they would. I wish they meaning the principles, know that I knew that I could do more. Yeah, and so as principles, it doesn't mean that you just go dumb things on them. Yeah, you walk them through it. Sat down with the administrative secretary of that was talking about the scheduling earlier. This is what I'm doing, this is what I need help with. Can you do this? They would ask a couple clarifying quiess, we practice a little bit. So now now all of a sudden they have a bigger understanding of why we're doing the evaluation system for m hours. Yeah, hours of time. So I'm and scheduling those drained my energy, Yes, And now all of a sudden I don't have that drain anymore. So we're talking about principals who who are like tired, there's stop doing the things that you don't need to do. Be intentional with how you building that capacity. And follow up again, follow up yep, absolutely. And celebrate when things go well, even if it is Thank you, thank you for scheduling these Yeah. This podcast is sponsored by talk Space. You know, when you're really stressed or not feeling so great about your life or about yourself, talking to someone who understands can really help. But who is that person? How do you find them? Where do you even start talk Space? Talkspace makes it easy to get the support you need. With Talkspace, you can go online, answer a few questions about your preferences, and be the therapist. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule wherever you feel most at ease. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with the relationship, or if you want some counseling for you and your partner, we're just to need a little extra one on one support, Talkspace is here for you. Plus, Talkspace works with most major insurers and most insured members have a zero dollar copey no insurance, no problem. Now get eighty dollars off of your first month with promo code Space eighty. When you go to talkspace dot com. Match with a licensed therapist today at talkspace dot com. Save eighty dollars with code space eighty at talkspace dot com. Lastly, let's get on to the lead segment. Earlier in this our episode here we were talking about how we're scheduling out our evaluations and how we're staying focused, trying to get ahead of the game. Actually, oh, actually keeping up with the game. Yeah, that's true. Give yourself a fighting chance on it, give yourself a fighting chance with our control, because if we can, we can control that. We talked about how we can build capacity staying still within that evaluation syst and we talked about how you lean into your ministry of secretary or assistant to kind of get them scheduled. So let's get ahead start with how do we lead now? So get really attention with the lead. So when we know our staff and we've been working with teachers thinking about growth as a instead of a year to year, think you it as more of a global process. And one of our favorite authors, Brene Brown, says it in a couple of different books. Actually, but she says clear as kind and clear kin, and there's people like myself and there's if we talk about the disc profile people like myself or so maybe maybe in the ass world that they don't want to hurt anybody's feeling. In the worry of hurting people's feelings, we start getting wishy washy, and then we're not clear, and then all of a sudden, the administrator gets mad because the teacher's not falling what they were saying. So now we've got a collision. The cliche could a lot of times be avoided with just clarity. If we don't have that, then it becomes there's some animosity that gets filled up on the target or. Why didn't she just listened? Or he doesn't lifts in, Well, it's because I just don't understand in the first place, because we didn't do a good job of explaining it a lot of times. And that's just it. And you know, ignoring it doesn't solve any problems. It might be easier, but it doesn't. Sugarcoating doesn't solve any problems. Again, might be easier short term loss, yeah, sort wins or long term loss. We're not moving anybody, and we're not actually getting to the heart of what we need to do. I truly believe that every teacher we have is there for the right reason. They're there because they love kids and they want to see kids grow. I also know that the world of education changes constantly, and so does life in general, and so based on where everybody's at within that continuum, we may be at our peak or we may not be. And I'm just as guilty of that as anybody. I also know that now is a good time for us to start kind of being a little bit proactive and planning those harder conversations that are going to have to happen. They have to happen, because the longer they don't happen, the more we just prolong either bad behavior, bad happen bits, or just a lack of knowledge that we just we need to improve a little bit. So from this leadership standpoint about how we lead through that, I know you've had a lot of those difficult conversations, been in this game long enough, so have I. How do you set up yourself for success when you know I have a teacher. Well, to say, for this example, I have a teacher coming in this fall. Things just haven't been going great. We've been over a couple you know, I've been through a couple of different cycles with them, and it's time that we're going to need to do some improvement. We're going to need to grow and I know this is coming. How do you prepare for that conversation? I think of three aspects. One former mentor spoke with me. When you get into those conversations, we call them tricky navigation. Whatever it is m hm, you have to get in the zone. That means you prepare for the conversation. You don't just jump into it. So you get in the zone and sometimes emotions will try to pully out or deflection or lack of clarity, and you're a part pulley out. You get to stay in the zone. Two another mentor, Troy Fisher, leader in the State at one time. I actually always me there. She mentioned sometimes that you have to lead with your soul, and when leading with your soul means that if there's something that needs to be addressed, you're not gonna be able to sleep at night. Your soul is going to be rattled and then something's going to bother me. So now you're draining your own energy and you don't even know it. So you have to address whatever the matter is. And third dog on it. Our kids deserve it is really it isn't about the adult, It's about the children. Well, I would like to say the souls that are coming into that classroom, they deserve to have the adults on the same page. They deserve to have clarity. They deserve it. We don't need to be putting more blocks barriers. In their way. Yeah, there's enough of them alreast hull step. Let's not add to it. So when it comes down to how do I have that conversation? I do plan them out and I think about, Okay, what is it specifically that I'm targeting and anchoring it to a standard of some sort of way, that be a teaching standard, an academic standard, a belief that we have, but have it anchored so that we take the emotions out of it. When we're human, it's easy to get our emotions locked in. We want to take the emotions out and get very targeted with that. Now, I don't surprise. I try my best never to surprise, and sometimes if I do, then that's really on me. But I try not to surprise any of them. So I have it kind of mapped out what the conversation is. I know what I have to have what does the targeted outcome look like? Again, clear as kind, there is kind. And then we started having a conversation. And a lot of times that's just a conversation. There's no documentation, there's no computer open, there's nothing. In fact, one time I was having a conversation similar to we're talking about. I knew that curriculum was going to change. I know that classroom management was the problem right now. So I was like, we got to lean in on that classroom management so that when we are evolving with the. Curriculum to go. Yep. And I remember having a conversation. No barrier between us. It was just care to chair, not across the desk. How much that matters? It does it clearly matters, So no barriers between having a conversation, and it was it was about what I just mentioned. And I remember that that person it went well, that person went and spoke with actually was a little worried about it because it was the principle and the principal's of course, yeah, yeah, yeah, anxiety is a little higher. Yeah, I get it. I get it. Went and had a conversation with another colleague, and that colleague she expressed that she was worried a little bit. And so then the other teacher said, tell me about that conversation. Was there a table between you two, And the answer was no, it was his computer opened. The answer was no. Was he writing anything down? The answer again was no to you, and the me yep, yeah, And that print that teacher, that colleague of that teacher says, sounds like you're trying to help. It's good. So now I got that endorsement a little bit there too. You know, as you're talk about that plan piece, I'm sure you're familiar with fierce conversations Susan Scott work right, yep. One of the things she talks about, and I'm not going to be able to pull exactly out of which conversation this is, and that wonderful little flip book that she's got there, but one of the thing she talks in there too is about owning your portion of it. And I think that's hard sometimes for us to understand that our teachers struggle in classrooms not going well well. I have a portion in that too, because I could have recognized this sooner, I could have gone in there and tried to offer some support sooner. I have a portion in this and owning that piece right out of the gate of hey, yat, we are going to need to grow here because we want to give a better service for our students. But it is a we piece, and definitely I'm going to be part of this from this because again the point here is not a gotcha. If we're at a stage of we're going to jump all the way to a gotcha, either one of two things have happened. Either a really really poor decision, which we know is the license type decision. Things have happened and it just is what it is, or I haven't worked hard enough yet and haven't been clear enough with that person that this is a problem. I've got to get to that second piece and start breaking down that barrier and try to refill the stuff that I I should have done in the first place. So communicating is always something that I have to be really thoughtful of how I operate. When you're meeting with a teacher like that, I always like to have something written down so that we can make sure we're on the same page because of all past experiences, and you know, once you write it down, it becomes like documentation and spooky and so forth. I would write, do what you're talking about, like with working together, and sometimes we're writing on the whiteboard. Now I didn't have a whiteboard. I hit a wall that was painted with whiteboard and it was wonderful. But just to show that we were navigating this together, we're communicating. It feels like a plan. It actually not the plan. It's not the plan, just a plan of support for me actually for the students, and this is what has to happen. So as a result of that, it might mean a little bit more work with the instructional coach. It might mean hey, I'm not exactly sure what it looks like, but let's talk it through. So then we come up with clear focuses and just targets that we need to get. We named the professional learning that they might need and the manner they need it as well, not just me saying it, go read a book, Go read a book. Yeah. So if I have that employee that I know right out of the gates, you talking about planning for it, getting yourself in the zone. The other thing I think that sometimes we forget is that follow up piece is so absolutely crucial. It can't just be well, I just had that meeting and you're gone and you walk out of my office because you're schedule the show. Yeah, exactly. Otherwise that's just a butt chewing, is all that is, and that doesn't accomplish anything nothing. How long should we wait before we have that initial follow up we talk in next day? I mean, how long do we need to give people some time to because it's likely going to be a pretty traumatic experience for people, especially if I haven't done a good job of letting people know ahead of time. And again that's my portion, correct, it shouldn't be a surprise if I'm doing my job the way I should be doing it. How long do I need to give people? I think that's a conversation you have at that when you're sitting down, good idea, have that conversation. So is it within a week? Is it a day or two to three weeks and it's touch basency how it's going, or is it a Hey, can you give me a month because I got to learn? There's okay, let's talk. So then when we're going to follow up with the learning, or when are we going to follow up with the instruction? Hey, when I go into your classroom, what is it that you'd want me to look for, so you empower the person as well. I mean, let's face it, we need and we typically have great human beings in the school, like you were mentioning earlier. So if we get people to lead with their soul, we get them to understand that we have a clear anchor what the expectation is, give them say on what they need instead of us guessing. Remember that building capacity part we're talking about. They're building it here. We're building it right here. Employee Pricing Plus sales event is going on now at d Yarman, CDJR and Ames Iowa twenty twenty five fifteen hundred's with up to fifteen thousand dollars off, twenty twenty five chief Grand Jerkeys without to nine thousand dollars off, and new Wranglers without that eight thousand, five hundred dollars off, get new ramhds without to seventeen thousand dollars off, save thousands all months with the Employee Pricing Plus at Darman c Djurnams, Dyarmanames dot Com. I ever, wish there was a central hub where educators could truly connect, a place to not just learn, but to share your incredible journey and insights with others who get it. Welcome to AWB Education. We believe that when educators come together, we all grow stronger. It's a dedicated space for you to share your knowledge, promote your work, and tell your story to a receptive audience of your peers. Think of it as an open invitation. Want to widen your reach and impact more students and teachers. Are you looking to broaden your influence and education, or perhaps you just want to amplify your knowledge by learning from others. Our commitment is unwavering. AWB Education is and always will be free to contribute to and to get valuable information from. We believe in open access and the power of shared wisdom. Our community is always growing and we can't wait to hear from you. Join us today and become a part of something special, amplify knowledge, wide and reach and broaden impact. This is AWB All right, Jim, It's time we start wrapping this up today. So let's go ahead and start this with a recap. Today we talked about for control. We're going to get a head start on planning that eval schedule and get things ready to go so that we're we're structured and ready to make those meaningful as we head into next year. The shift. We talked about being an energy giver, not an energy taker, and that it can be done through some purposeful delegation, building capacity within our staff and really understanding that importance for doing so as a team. And then we're talking about leading. We have those struggling employee conversations that are going to be coming. How we best prepare for those that were doing our the hard job, not the fun job of leadership, but doing the job that's very important as we continue to grow forward. I miss anything there, No, actually, you know, just keeping the focus and because our kids deserve it, Our kids deserve us to be better, Our kids deserve our staff to be better as a whole. With that, yeah, no, good, good, Yeah. These so listeners out there, this is Jim and Adams take on how we can you know, the control of lead and shift focusing in on how we can stay organized, how we can continue to lead and be working being clear with our expectations with staff. We'd love to hear from all of you. There's a link in our show notes where we we'd love to if you could share some tips, tricks, and maybe even some examples that you've done when it comes to staying organized with the evaluation process and maybe even some ways that you prepare for some of those sometimes considered tricky conversations that you have with staff. This is a conversation and again their our whole purpose is to support all educators through different types of lenses, and we'd love to hear from you well. Like Jim said, thanks for listening to us. Everybody. We appreciate you hopping on to Control Shift Lead. If you do like the show, please take a moment to like follow our share. It does certainly help keep this podcast growing and we appreciate you tuning in and we'd love to hear from you. We'll talk with you again next time on Control Shift Lead. You've been listening to Control Shift Lead, brought to you by Inspired Edification and AWB Education. We're glad you joined us for today's discussion on empowering school leadership. To dive deeper and explore more of Jim and Adams's work, find us at www dot AWB education dot org. Thanks for listening. We look forward to connecting with you again soon.